Shipping swords and UPS

[Kevin]

There has, at one time or another, been a bit of discussion on how to ship swords. I recall UPS being mentioned, and both pros and cons given.

 

Well, I’ve been using UPS to deliver swords for the last year. A year ago I went through their Terms and Conditions with a fine tooth comb before doing so, including their ‘prohibited items’ list. After all, you don't want to use a courier who doesn't want to carry your stuff. However, there were no problems – the UK site didn’t mention anything about swords in any way, shape or form. Swords subsequently went off to various countries with the relevant paperwork for Customs describing the contents accurately and giving tariff numbers – no problems. I even had a lengthy chat on one occasion with their Customs department concerning the paperwork for one export shipment – absolutely no problems.

 

The other day, according to tracking, UPS decided to return a shipment because it contained a 'prohibited item'. Cue irritation and puzzlement, plus apologies to the customer and a bit of running round to find alternate methods of transport. My partner and I also went though UPS’ Terms and Conditions again, plus their prohibited items list, to see if anything had changed. Still no mention of swords, or of anything that could be taken to mean swords. There was a vague mention of items that could cause injury, but that could be taken to mean almost anything; baseball bat, food blender, chainsaw, sink plunger. It was not an informative clause.

 

A UPS representative rang up asking for me. I wasn’t in, so my partner answered. UPS representative suddenly found they’d got someone highly irritated on the line. However, Cal took the number, passed it to me, and I phoned back. I was extremely polite, but probably cold enough to be freezing the telephone wires.

 

The conversation started off with the representative telling me that the parcel had been returned because I had shipped a prohibited item. They tried their best to sound officious, they really did, but it was to no avail. I pointed out that I had been through their Terms and Conditions, and their prohibited items list, in minute detail, and nowhere was there anything applicable to swords that I could find. “But we don’t ship swords!” they said. I pointed out that they had been shipping my swords for the last year, complete with accurate Customs documentation – indeed, I’d had a chat with one woman in the Customs department over a shipment to Japan. In fact only the other day they’d delivered one to Italy, which means extensive Customs work. I pointed out that this meant that not only had they been shipping swords, but they had been knowingly shipping swords. “But they’re prohibited items!” the representative wailed. “Show me where in your Terms and Conditions, or in your prohibited items list, it says that swords are prohibited items.” “Umm! Err!” “Does that mean that you can’t tell me where it says that swords are prohibited items?” “Err . . .” “Not even a clause that I might reasonably take as applying to swords?” “Err!” “Thought so.” “But we don’t ship swords!” they bleated. “Well perhaps you should tell people, because you’ve been quite happily shipping swords for the last year, and you’ve known that they were swords.”

 

By this point the representative was getting somewhat desperate, and wriggling as uncomfortably as a pinned butterfly. “Don’t you have anything else we can ship, other than swords?” “No. The name of the business might give it away – Ryujin Swords.” “Oh.” “It is plastered over all the waybills and Customs documents that you’ve been getting, you know, the ones that told you that there were swords in the packages. The business name is also on every parcel.” “Oh. But swords are prohibited items!” they bleated, wriggling desperately. “Well, you’ve already agreed that you are unable to tell me where it says that swords are prohibited items.” “Err! Sorry.” “In any case, I’ve already shortlisted 3-4 other courier firms to take over from you, and they are happy to take my business.” “Oh. So there isn’t anything we can do for you?” “No.” “Oh. Sorry.” By now the representative sounded as if they were looking for somewhere to hide; they may also have been suffering from frostbite.

 

End of conversation – but not the end of the saga. Along comes the UPS deliveryman with the returned parcel. My partner opens the door, already unimpressed by the company. The deliveryman gives her the parcel, opens his mouth and says:

 

“Who’s been a naughty girl then?”

 

 

She’s in her 30s, attractive, extremely intelligent, has a degree and a Masters, runs her own business, helps with mine, runs the smallholding, moderates a forum and deals with our daughter. A formidably intelligent and very competent woman.

 

“Who’s been a naughty girl then?”

 

 

It was the last straw as far as she was concerned. They probably heard the bang in the next village. The deliveryman departed at high speed with his tail between his legs. The only thing that surprised me was that she didn’t chase him up the road with the yari I gave her, shouting “Come here, let me geld you!” :D I suspect, however, that the deliveryman may have felt that she might. :D

 

Meantime I am sorting out things with other courier firms and I’ll let you know how it goes.

 

Kevin

[John A Stuart]

Great story Kevin, although illustrating a sad and frustrating outcome. You just can't fight the bureaucracy whether private or government. Free thought is frowned upon. Even though the deliveryman could have been gelded they breed asexually like some flies or is it cloning? John

[Jean]

Kevin,

 

Did you get your money back?

[Kevin]

Great story Kevin, although illustrating a sad and frustrating outcome. You just can't fight the bureaucracy whether private or government. Free thought is frowned upon. Even though the deliveryman could have been gelded they breed asexually like some flies or is it cloning? John

 

Oh, it was infuriating - however, they didn't have a leg to stand on.

 

I was waiting to see if they invoked the 'can cause injury' clause, in which case they'd have been told that the only way any parcel of mine would cause injury would be if their staff unpacked it and started brandishing the sword about, in which case perhaps they might like to think of employing more professional staff. They wisely avoided that line. :-) I would also have pointed out that the clause was so vague that it effectively meant that they couldn't carry anything.

 

I was also waiting to see if they tried the "it's a weapon!" line as well, in which case they'd have been told that these were recognised as works of art by the Japanese government, a definition that was accepted by the British government when formulating the recent Act. However, the representative avoided that argument as well. They probably thought that it was more than their life was worth. :-)

 

They did at least have the good grace to sound apologetic by the end of the conversation. :-) And I suspect that the deliveryman won't be trying remarks like that again, particularly not on attractive blondes. :D

 

Mind you, the silly sods had unpacked the parcel and made a pig's ear of repacking it. A very unprofessional job. I unpacked it completely after its return, checked the contents carefully, and repacked it properly.

 

I've kept the customer informed. Meantime, if everything goes right, the new company delivers faster for not much more, accepts antiques, does full insurance, and I have it in black and white that they are OK with swords. However, we've yet to finalise the booking, so I have yet to see what they are like in practice.

 

Kevin

[Kevin]

Kevin,

 

Did you get your money back?

 

That's the next thing to check - if I've been charged or not and if so, have the charges been reversed. If I have been charged, and the money hasn't come back, they will be hearing from me again.

 

My conclusions? Don't touch UPS with a bargepole.

 

Kevin

[Stephen]

My conclusions? Don't touch UPS with a bargepole

 

Which was the advice i laid out from the get go.

[Brian Hancock]

Hi Kevin,

 

Parcelfarce are the same.Take your money and any claim you may have to make they cry "We don't carry swords" Try Fed-Ex.

Cheers,

Brian.

[Grey Doffin]

Fedex doesn't carry swords either. That is, they may carry them if you're careful not to tell them what it is they're carrying, but if you have a claim to make then they don't carry them. Every time I go searching for the one true best way to ship Nihonto I end up back where I started, at the post office.

Grey

[Ford Hallam]

She’s in her 30s, attractive, extremely intelligent, has a degree and a Masters, runs her own business, helps with mine, runs the smallholding, moderates a forum and deals with our daughter. A formidably intelligent and very competent woman.

 

particularly not on attractive blondes. :D

 

ok...so this is what I've gleaned from this tale of woe....

 

 

Kevin, ...you're a lucky, lucky bastard

 

....and you probably deserve all the aggravation officialdom deigns to rain on you :D ...at least enough so that the rest of us don't feel jealous

 

which is , I suspect the whole point of your tale :D

 

so....for being so effective here;s a beer

[drbvac]

I use Fed-ex and call the item "Japanese antique" and insure it for the proper amount. No problems yet

[Kevin]

My conclusions? Don't touch UPS with a bargepole

 

Which was the advice i laid out from the get go.

 

Well, in all fairness, they had been as good as gold for a year.

 

Kevin

[Kevin]

I use Fed-ex and call the item "Japanese antique" and insure it for the proper amount. No problems yet

 

Ah, I'm experimenting with a specialist courier who has no problems ith swords.

 

Kevin

[Kevin]

She’s in her 30s, attractive, extremely intelligent, has a degree and a Masters, runs her own business, helps with mine, runs the smallholding, moderates a forum and deals with our daughter. A formidably intelligent and very competent woman.

 

particularly not on attractive blondes. :D

 

ok...so this is what I've gleaned from this tale of woe....

 

 

Kevin, ...you're a lucky, lucky bastard

 

....and you probably deserve all the aggravation officialdom deigns to rain on you :D ...at least enough so that the rest of us don't feel jealous

 

which is , I suspect the whole point of your tale :D

 

so....for being so effective here;s a beer

 

Hi Ford

 

She's now blushing somewhat. :-)

 

And thanks for the beer - I shall share it with her. She also likes beer. :-)

 

Kevin

[Kevin]

Hi Kevin,

 

Parcelfarce are the same.Take your money and any claim you may have to make they cry "We don't carry swords" Try Fed-Ex.

Cheers,

Brian.

 

Umm! That's my other tale of woe, concerning a sword I bought from Grey. Suffice to say that they have also had a rocket inserted up their collective bottom. That however is a matter for another occasion.

 

Fed Ex? No, no no no no!

 

Kevin

[Dick Tait]

Is there a difference between the way you would handle the packing & postage of swords for 1) polishing/appraisal or 2) buying/selling?

[drbvac]

I certainly don't package them any differently. I oil the blade, wrap it in saran wrap and then newspaper so it is failry thick. Put a wooden peg through a piece of wood strapping so it goes through the mekugiana, so it can't slide forward and backward and then tape and tie the whole package to the board. then I put it in a big packing tube with lots of packing in the ends and ship away! You sure don't want it to come sliding out of the package and through someones foot! Then they know what kind of antique you were referring to

[Kevin]

Is there a difference between the way you would handle the packing & postage of swords for 1) polishing/appraisal or 2) buying/selling?

 

Nope. The general aim in both cases is to get the sword, and any koshirae, to the other end undamaged. Mine are packed well wherever they are going.

 

Kevin

[Dick Tait]

Is there a difference between the way you would handle the packing & postage of swords for 1) polishing/appraisal or 2) buying/selling?

 

Nope. The general aim in both cases is to get the sword, and any koshirae, to the other end undamaged. Mine are packed well wherever they are going.

 

Kevin

 

I really meant with regard to the description / customs declarations etc. You wouldn't really want to pay taxes on something you already own!

[John A Stuart]

I have had this happen to me before. A sword sent for polish, held at customs until I provided the original export documentation. This was after it had been clearly labeled on return packaging that it was returned after restoration. 8 months waiting for polish, etc., and another 2 weeks held at customs was a minor delay. Just keep your export papers and have 'sent for restoration' on them when you erxport. On the return papers have your polisher put the value of the polish. We have a tax on services so that is a neccessary. John

[Kevin]

Is there a difference between the way you would handle the packing & postage of swords for 1) polishing/appraisal or 2) buying/selling?

 

Nope. The general aim in both cases is to get the sword, and any koshirae, to the other end undamaged. Mine are packed well wherever they are going.

 

Kevin

 

I really meant with regard to the description / customs declarations etc. You wouldn't really want to pay taxes on something you already own!

 

Ah! Keep all export paperwork, which should state that it was a temporary export for polishing/shinsa/whatever and state that the items remain your property. Whoever is doing the work should include paperwork saying that they are returning the customer's property.

 

Basically make sure that there is a paper trail that Customs can't argue with. If you've got outgoing paperwork - and I photograph all items before they go, so photos can be included - and they've got the incoming paperwork that says the same, there should be no problem. Though there will still be taxes to pay on the work done.

 

NB: For the moment, I work for the Civil Service as the day job, so I know how Civil Servants think. :-) There's procedures. There's no point in getting irate at the Civil Servant processing your import - they've just got a job to do, and procedures to follow. They don't follow them, they'll get a kick up the rear from their line manager. However, they do like people who make their life easier and who understand their problems. Be nice, metaphorically smile, give them exactly what they need to process things, and things should be fine. Catch them on a good day in an email exchange and you may even get some human interaction. :-) Get grumpy and you'll wind up at the bottom of the pile.

 

Kevin