Submitting blade to NBTHK

[NewB]

Hola,

 

 

Probably the topic has been discussed but what is the SAFEST way to submit a blade and when is the best time to do it?

 

What's the process of doing it with or without an agent?

 

Have blades gone missing?

 

How long before it returns?

 

Could you submit unpapered blade for Juyo and how does it work?

 

 

How do you pay?

 

Has anyone done it themselves and what are the steps that have to be taken?

 

 

I have many more questions that don't surface at the moment and if anything of crucial importance has to be known, please do tell

 

 

Thank you in advance 

 

 

John

[ChrisW]

Best way is to submit a blade through an agent such as Darcy or Bob Benson. Without? I think you'd have to have the same level of credentials and contacts.

No blades go missing unless through fault of the postal service.

As for how long it takes? Several months, longer if you're going for Juyo. (they need time for photographing/write-up of the piece and its held less often for Juyo certification)

You cannot skip Hozon, you must go through the ranks.

There's various methods to how you pay the NBHK (just like paying for any service in a foreign country), but having an agent handle it for you is best since they already have the process set up. For the fairly minimal amount agents like Darcy and Bob Benson charge, it is probably best to go through them.

[NewB]

Understood

 

 

Thank you

 

 

John

[Bugyotsuji]

For a number of reasons, I agree with Chris on using a courier or agent, at least over the first several runs. 
 

To learn all the little tricks to do this on your own takes time and experience on several levels, and you will most likely need to lean on someone’s good nature until then.

[RichardP]

Covid seems to be creating delays as well—I submitted a tsuba for the kodogu shinsa back in January and have yet to receive results...

[Mark]

I have used Robert Hughes (member here) and Bob Benson in the past. There are others but i do not have personal experience so can't comment. Both have been excellent to work with. You can check the web NBTHK has a site. You need hozon and TH before you can submit for juyo. I think you have to be a NBTHK member to submit for Juyo, you can check with the agent you choose and they can tell you, they may be able to submit it under their names. For Hozon and/or TH i would think the sword will be gone for at least 6 months but it may take longer you can ask the agent, Juyo is only once a year and depending on the outcome it may be more than a year before it is back.  If you want to submit for Juyo a polish may be required, if so it can take a couple of years for it all to get done. When i have sent items before i try and forget about them and then i am happy and surprised when the return.

[NewB]

Thank you guys.

 

Mark, as long as it comes back, I am happy. I have 6 blades that HAVE to be tried for Juyo so I don't know whether doing it all together is better than one by one. I am just ultra frightened as USPS is unreliable around me and losing 6 at time versus one would be catastrophic to me as a beginner collector. :/

 

 

John

[PietroParis]

Congratulations, a beginner collector with six Juyo-level blades seems a rather exceptional beast...

[NewB]

I appreciate it, but no, just a guy trying to preserve as many as I can physically... re oiling them is a week long process for me so I hope they produce the result I believe in and I hope some people buy the ones that I no longer want to own (☺).

 

 It'd be my first time for such adventure so secretly I wish my name is registered to them. I am certain 3 will definitely produce Juyo since what I read as qualifications is what their current state is at. 

 

 

I am willing to confess I learned how to run before I knew how to walk in collecting so that might have created all sorts of nuisances and tons of questions but.. I am already running hahaha

 

 

 

John

[b.hennick]

I don't think that Darcy often acts as an agent for other people's swords. i do remember that he did so once as a result of a thread on NMB. It is not the sort of thing that I think of him spending time on.

[NewB]

12 minutes ago, b.hennick said:

I don't think that Darcy often acts as an agent for other people's swords. i do remember that he did so once as a result of a thread on NMB. It is not the sort of thing that I think of him spending time on.

 

 

It is what he says on his website. For me personally I believe Mr Benson would be the best choice as if the Juyo level requires a polish he is the one based on what I read.

 

I will address the Yuhindo team and see what they say also. Great to have options.

 

 

John

[Hoshi]

If you're going for Juyo, best post your blades here (with decent photos) and we can save you a lot of money by filtering what could pass from what definitely cannot. 

 

Free knowledge, make the best of it. 

[Mark]

you live a few miles from the Chicago show.  why not bring them all next year and there are several people who can look at them in person and give you advice and then go from there.

[NewB]

I was going to do it but couldn't attend Sunday.

 

My decision was to do it via the forum but with the recent developments I no longer wish to advertise except for the ones that I have zero interest in owning. I am sure it would have been a great study for all. consigning them with reputable dealers is an option or just throw them on the ebay grill. Sad..

 

 

John

[NewB]

47 minutes ago, Valric said:

If you're going for Juyo, best post your blades here (with decent photos) and we can save you a lot of money by filtering what could pass from what definitely cannot. 

 

Free knowledge, make the best of it. 

I wouldn't. In person - yes. Too much negativity and unnecessary gossip

 

 

Thank you

 

 

John

[Tom Darling]

John, I take it that these swords are already (TH) papered by the NBTHK.  It would be a stretch that all six swords would make juyo.  If papered to a top level smith,  it has a  much better chance.  Also, when were the papers issued?   You could also contact the NBTHK for their recommendation. Good Luck.

[NewB]

I appreciate that very much. Some of them have had their papers lost However the number of the certificate and its level are known. It'd be awesome if they could find and reissue that. The shortcut would be NTHK in SF this year. And in my rookie opinion, certain signed works are so rare they'd get TH minimum. I prefer not to believe that certain names or scholars get higher privilege in judgement than unknown collectors as myself but something to think about.. and last - the majority of what I have acquired hasn't seen daylight/spotlight So no matter what it is I know 3 are guaranteed Juyo, if not now then whenever they get IN the spotlight. Most likely I'll do it on my own

 

 

John 

[Jean]

Don’t base your judgement on NBTHK criteria to say that a blade will pass Juyo for two reasons:

 

- NBTHK does not necessarily follow its criteria

- Juyo level is not an exam but a competition where only the best of the best pass

 

Paul Martin from The Japanese Sword is also an excellent agent.

 

if you are not a NBTHK member, it will cost you an extra fee.

[NewB]

I appreciate that. I am at the already papered (not by NBTHK) so I somewhat know what I am holding in my hands. Failure to get Juyo wouldn't be a disappointment. At the end not many signed Shizu blades exist these days.  .. well the ones in the spotlight that is.

 

 

Also I am not here to compete, I will get what I want eventually. Thought I can do it via the best channels hence my questions in my initial post.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 

John

[b.hennick]

I think that most of the people on messageboard could not spend a weekend at a sword show and pick six swords and have three blades that would become juyo on submission. 

[NewB]

Well I posted 1 which is a guarantee.  The other are Shizu and some more Shizu. Well different papers than NBTHK so plenty of speculation AND plenty of desire. Understandable i hope.

 

 

John

[NewB]

4 minutes ago, b.hennick said:

I think that most of the people on messageboard could not spend a weekend at a sword show and pick six swords and have three blades that would become juyo on submission. 

I saw a Juyo at the Chicago show. Astounding. Yes, might be a waste of money But worth the risk

 

 

John

[Katsujinken]

1 hour ago, Darkcon said:

Well I posted 1 which is a guarantee.  The other are Shizu and some more Shizu. Well different papers than NBTHK so plenty of speculation AND plenty of desire. Understandable i hope.

 

 

John

John, out of curiosity, which blade are you referring to here?

 

And are you saying you’re holding a blade signed by Shizu Kaneuji?

[chrstphr]

25 minutes ago, Katsujinken said:

John, out of curiosity, which blade are you referring to here?

 

And are you saying you’re holding a blade signed by Shizu Kaneuji?

 

Chris

 

[Rivkin]

Signed Shizu is automatic TJ, but there was a dozen or so later Kaneuji's which are common.

I will be more direct than most - 99% chance all six blades you have are mid grade blades far removed from Juyo. Its just the way it works.

Shizu Kaneuji are also relatively easy to kantei, so there should be half a dozen people in the US who can look at it and say whether its in the ball park or nowhere close to it.

[NewB]

I posted one not so long ago. Not him but close to him. The rest have Yamato Shizu papers, who knows might be him or earlier..  We shall see

 

 

John

[NewB]

Well

 

 

There are some shodai Tadayoshi examples. Those are not too far from Juyo right?

 

😛

 

John

[Rivkin]

Hard to tell.

Shinto Juyo is a thing of its own.

Ordinary Tadayoshi most likely will not pass.

[NewB]

I believe your words

Shodai Tadayoshi has one of the highest Juyo Token recognition than most of the era. Again, speculation.  I wouldn't know unless I try, even if I have to submit it personally .

 

 

John

[Rivkin]

Its best to ask someone else, since I don't like Tadayoshi and don't collect him.

But the general problem is that things are not comparable when you talk about sessions 1-20, 20-something, 31-50 and 50 and up. They all have somewhat different standards. Early on a lot of Hizen Tadayoshi were passed. Recently I think once in a while someone well recognized presents a few and they pass, but generally its difficult. It used to be every session would have dozens Ryokai, Mihara what else yamato-derived. Not by a long shot today.