Cleaning rust from tsuba

[Mark S.]

I picked up this tsuba basically for free (thrown in as part of another purchase) because I liked the simple theme.  It was also something to work on without worrying about ruining something expensive.  It came heavily coated with surface rust and yet also had some very thin patina in certain areas.  Unfortunately, the shakudo (correct material?) plugs are very scratched as well.  It almost seems like tsuba was in a drawer (or other) and allowed to slide around which made the back side patina and shakudo much more damaged than the front.
 

The tsuba is signed Yamashiro no Kuni Fushimi Kaneiye, but I assume it is one of the many later copies of this smith/school.  
 

I have slowly and carefully been removing the extensive rust using slightly sharpened bamboo and a fiberglass pen and rubbing with cotton cloth.  I’ve gotten quite a bit cleaned up, but no matter how much I work, the areas that are sunken or have more ‘grain’ just won’t let go of very dark but still red rust.  When scraped with the bamboo, some areas will still come up with dusty red rust.  LOTS of work still to do I think... or not?  Other than time, does anyone have any recommendations to help the appearance of the shakudo plugs?  I tried not to touch the silver moon, but simply rubbing with the cotton cloth removed some dirt and or patina of silver.  I am sorry about that.  Trying to leave remainder on it.
 

Also, depending on the angle the tsuba is held in the light, the areas with thin patina are still ‘black’, but when light shines off them, they appear bright and shiny.  I would assume this means patina is not completely removed, but has just been ‘polished’ too much?

 

Here is a progression picture from purchase to now.  If I’m doing something wrong, please let me know as well.  I know we say restoration should be left to experts, but I’m just trying to stop active rust and make it look a little nicer... not ‘new’.

 

All advice welcome...

 

[Bob M.]

Hi Mark,

 

Personally , I wouldn't go any further - it is not a brand new piece and should be allowed to show some age .

 

The tsuba might benefit from a thin coating of almond oil , patted dry or left in acid neutral tissue to absorb excess.

 

Quite a transformation from your starting point !

 

Regards

[b.hennick]

I put a tsuba in my back pocket. The jeans gently but the tsuba and improve the patina. MY ERROR DO NOT DO THIS FOR TSUBA WITH SOFT METAL. IT IS FINE FOR ALL IRON TSUBA. MY BAD!

[Curran]

I like it the way it is now.

It has been a long time since I worked on a tsuba with ivory and bone, but it certainly teaches you about the tsuba.

[Marius]

1 hour ago, b.hennick said:

I put a tsuba in my back pocket. The jeans gently but the tsuba and improve the patina. 

 

Yes, but this tsuba has soft metal inlays. They will be polished and I am not sure if Mark would like that.

[Mark S.]

I was concerned about the moon inlay and the tiny gold/silver dew drops(?) would be polished and the high points (especially the grasses) would have patina rubbed even more?  I’ve never done the back pocket thing so don’t know the overall effect.  

[Marius]

2 minutes ago, Mark S. said:

I was concerned about the moon inlay and the tiny gold/silver dew drops(?) would be polished and the high points (especially the grasses) would have patina rubbed even more?  I’ve never done the back pocket thing so don’t know the overall effect.  

 

And you were right. Don't do it, unless you want shiny inlay.

[Mark S.]

I’ve also read Jimmy Gilbert’s article that states washing tsuba with mild soap and water is ok and that even boiling is acceptable.  Not sure I wanted to go there?  I’ve seen that boiling can turn some of the red rust to the more desirable black?  I know there are several threads regarding all this, and did not mean to rehash all that info.  I was however willing to accept all advice/criticism of my current efforts though.  Thanks everyone so far and open to hearing more.

[Curran]

Washing iron tsuba is fine. Strip off the oils of years, it will look a little ugly in its naked state- but that is best.

Work a place with ivory or bone depending on the perceived hardness and how thin you feel the true patina is under the rust.

 

After a soap wash, and then working a spot of rust, wash the spot again, dry, and put some oil on it to float lingering rust- leave it as such overnight before washing again and continuing to work a spot.

Just be cautious. At a certain point, LESS is certainly MORE.

[b.hennick]

I was wrong in suggesting the pocket treatment on a tsuba with soft metal. Please just use it on iron tsuba. I corrected the original post. My bad!

[kissakai]

I think it is in a nice condition now and it's nice to see what can be done

I had a very rusty tsuba and a fellow collector had a thick piece of either copper or brass. This was placed on a gas ring and heated up so it was only just too hot to handle

Light taps remove some quite large pieces of rust scale

With another tsuba I had a crescent moon that was really dirty so I rubbed it with a pencil erasure, a soft one not the hard bitty ones and that can up a treat without looking too shiny

I generally use soapy water and occasionally an ultrasonic cleaner. The ultrasonic requires caution as it can remove inlay

I've no problem if any one says this 100% wrong as we are here to learn

[roger dundas]

As something of an amateur in these discussions, I love these posts.

Did Ford Hallam mention using Renaissance wax to finish off ?

Roger j

[ChrisW]

A very interesting thread to say the least. You have to be careful with Ren Wax though as it is a micro-crystalline wax and can scratch nihonto if you were to ever get it near them! Should be just fine on most tsuba though.

[Mark S.]

57 minutes ago, roger dundas said:

 

Did Ford Hallam mention...

 

Funny you mention his name... I was going to make a joke earlier that I just hoped he wasn’t off somewhere screaming into a pillow about my efforts so far... 

[Spartancrest]

I agree with Grev it looks much improved, the scratches on the ategane on the ura are a pity but you would need to polish them out to stop the refracted light but I think that is drastic and should only be done by a professional [leave the wrinkles they show its had a life] Barry is right about his tsuba fussing - cotton jeans with  cotton pockets and a lot of rubbing but as he says not with inlays. [you might end up with strange indents in your butt when you sit down as well  ]

[Ford Hallam]

say my name three times and click your heels and I will appear...

 

A few observations;

 

Rust is generally harder than any underlying patina, if any really remains...so when rubbing active rust on a tsuba surface you're inevitably abrading any underlying patina. I dislike this old approach for this reason. 

 

Just because a rust deposit is red doesn't mean it's active. Active rust requires at least some degree of humidity so the most effective and least damaging action is to keep rusty pieces in a very dry atmosphere until a less aggressive treatment can be applied. A box with desiccating packets might be an easy temporary step if you're really concerned.

 

And micro crystalline wax really isn't abrasive at all, and is perfect for tosogu of all types. Ibota wax, on the other hand, the traditional wax used, is a bad idea as it readily breaks down in the presence of copper and it's alloys to form corrosive compounds.

 

...and having said all that, Mark, I think You've done a pretty decent job. The only real remaining issue now is the bright steel spots, but they were bare before you started.

[Mark S.]

Mr Hallam,

Thank you so much for taking a few moments to add your knowledge and expertise to this thread and commenting on my rather everyday tsuba.  I know you’re used to a different level of tosogu but thank you for your time.