A word about amateur polishing

[Brian]

This was just posted by Andrew Ickeringill ( @Andrew Ickeringill ) on Facebook, and I thought it was worth posting here, and pinning for the future.
Andrew is a FULLY trained traditional polisher and one of the most qualified to make these statements. Before bringing up the subject on this forum, and risking a storm of fire, please read this and take it to heart.
 

Amateur sword polishers… I know you probably won’t listen, but I’ll try anyway.

Recently, I’ve been seeing more and more rubbish from amateur polishers on the internet, it’s not a new problem, but with social media being what it is, amateurs have been given a platform where they can prosper. It’s beyond frustrating, it’s infuriating, and it's working directly against what I'm striving for, the preservation of Nihonto.

I’ve had to correct the damage caused by amateur polishers many times, and the damage is always severe. Correcting these hack-jobs takes a lot of work, and it means removing more steel than would’ve otherwise been necessary if the blade had previously gone to a traditionally-trained togishi.

A traditional apprenticeship in togi takes years to complete for a reason, THERE’S A LOT TO LEARN! It means giving up everything else to spend your time in servitude to Nihonto. My apprenticeship was 12 hours a day / 7 days a week / for over 6 years, and even my spare time (what little I had) was usually spent studying nihonto. But if you want to be a togishi, this is the way it must be, you have to go all in.

Through arrogance or ignorance or both, amateur polishers have completely forgone this necessary training. Some of them may have attended seminars in Japan, or visited a togishi for a few days… but this obviously doesn’t equate to traditional training. And for many amateurs, the bulk of their training consists of reading books and watching youtube videos of swords being ruined without a clue. Unfortunately, these videos receive plenty of misguided encouragement from those who don’t know any better… “wow, so shiny!”.

Amateurs will often argue… “this sword isn’t worth sending to a pro, should we just leave it to rust?”… but how would THEY know? They haven’t been trained in kantei, they have no idea if a sword is worth a professional restoration or not. A cold chill passes up my spine every time I think about this, how many great swords have been ruined by amateurs? I know I’ve already seen a few in my time.

If you’re an amateur polisher reading this, let me give you a tip… this job is not for you. This isn’t something that should be attempted by anyone but a traditionally trained togishi, and if you haven’t realised this fact by now, then you need to develop more respect for Nihonto and the craftsmen who have worked their butts off to complete the proper training. Please stop scraping the life away from these works of art, you’re doing far more damage than repair… this job is not for you!

[ChrisW]

This should be permanently linked in the Nihonto Info section as its own category and also under care as well.

[b.hennick]

I would also encourage you quickly restrict those who promote or do amateur polishing. 

[Jwrussell]

Funny, I was trying to form my thoughts into a decent post suggesting someone (with the knowledge to be coherent about the subject) put just such a message up and pin it. 

[Mark S.]

I do think another quote from highly respected member of the NMB is extremely appropriate to repost here...

 

"I'm too tired to even go into this again. Every guy is like a stuck record:
1- I polish my own stuff

2- We tell you we don't tolerate amateur polishing here
3- You tell us how you are different, how you know what you are doing and how you polish stuff no-one else wants to
4- We point out that what you think is good, removes metal, ruins lines, opens or closes grain and does no-one any favours

5- You come back indignantly and tell us how your 5 years of welding or plumbing gives you experience

6- We ask what you know about kantei, and are you able to kantei before you polish, in order to bring out what should be shown

7- You admit you cannot kantei, and fall back on the "I'm saving ruined swords" plea

8- We point out that you are not qualified to tell what is ruined or not, and that after your work, the swords now need another polish

9- You leave in a huff, refusing to take the advice first given and just shut up about amateur polishing.

This will be the 20th time? 30th time? Gets monotonous. Decide if you want to just agree to drop the subject, or if you want to go for the ban.  - Brian"

 

 

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[16k]

Is this still about my thread? Guys, if so, get over it, it’s long been locked and I have no intention to mention the subject publicly ever again...

[paulb]

Don't worry JP this wasn't related to your post

[lonely panet]

I agree with all of what Brian has written.

 

It should be a crime, punished by thumb removal

[Brian]

No JP. I don't even remember your thread. It's just general advice, since Andrew just posted the above on FB 2 days ago.

[16k]

12 hours ago, paulb said:

Don't worry JP this wasn't related to your post

 

2 hours ago, Brian said:

No JP. I don't even remember your thread. It's just general advice, since Andrew just posted the above on FB 2 days ago.

Thanks guys, makes me feel better. There I was thinking, man! I really triggered a s**t storm involuntarily! 

[Jacques D.]

I am wondering if I can continue to sharpen my Ikkanshi Tadatsuna that i often use.

[16k]

Of course you can! Rasp it against a concrete wall once or twice on each side and it’s as good as new! 

[IJASWORDS]

I bought all this equipment to polish old blades, now you tell me it's not appropriate? You sure know how to rain on a guys parade! 

(This should get me kicked off the forum for a while!).  

[Jacques D.]

5 hours ago, 16k said:

Of course you can! Rasp it against a concrete wall once or twice on each side and it’s as good as new! 

 

I was referring to this (sorry but this video is only in french):  

 

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

Maybe an utopic idea but would it be possible to offer some guidance to those interested in seeking the way of polishing? Who to contact in Japan (or internationally), what basic requirements you must meet even to consider this etc.?

[Andrew Ickeringill]

7 hours ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

Maybe an utopic idea but would it be possible to offer some guidance to those interested in seeking the way of polishing? Who to contact in Japan (or internationally), what basic requirements you must meet even to consider this etc.?

 

The most basic requirement is to put in the necessary effort yourself.

[uwe]

For sure Andrew and I totally agree!

Unfortunately, we record a faster and faster growing gap between the demand and the availability of “resources”. This applies equally to sword as well as armor restoration and will become a real task, already in the near future....

 

[MHC]

See...now you spoiled my plans, I even got all dressed up for it.

Mark

[raynor]

This is unfortunately nothing new. Many fields are plagued with people who often have the best of intentions but no intent of expending any effort. The world is crawling with experts having completed ardourous six week letter courses or video classes. Often in some old field not taught in "modern" learning institutions like martial arts, meditation or old crafts like sword polishing. Our ancestors took their skills very seriously and many reached levels in their arts beyond anything seen in the industrialized world since. The only good defense against growing ignorance is knowledge, the internet is a good tool for it but it often feels like showeling s**t against the tide. Cest la vie.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

On 4/22/2021 at 6:03 AM, 16k said:

Of course you can! Rasp it against a concrete wall once or twice on each side and it’s as good as new! 

 

I can't tell you how many European sabers I've seen sharpened on a bench grinder or dremel.  People see "Sword," and stop thinking. And then the chrome plating.
Youtube is a nightmare of "restorations" of firearms and swords, and when they reach for the naval jelly and die grinder, I throw up.
I polish repros.  That's where I stop.

[tbonesullivan]

I hate that people don't realize how much of an art form it is. I wouldn't want someone playing in an orchestra that had watched a few youtube videos. I play in a community orchestra, and even the people in that are expected to have a command of their instrument, which takes years of dedication and hard work.

 

I work in the military antiques business, and the number of RUINED antiques that I have seen is enough to make many cry. I don't see how "polish the crap out of it" became the norm. I also have seen the tons of youtube "restoration experts" that have popped up, and they ALSO make my eyes bleed, even when they are doing something like an old screwdriver. There are definitely ones that know what they are doing, and are bringing great pieces of machinery back to a usable state. One I follow also has a machine shop outfitted with the correct tools needed to fix and repair these things, compared to the garage you see many of these "restoration" people working out of.

 

And yes, we have gotten Nihonto, examples of which I have posted in the past, that were attacked by people with a buffer or a sharpening stone. Breaks my heart. We also get plenty of standard 20th Century Military Issue blades that have been hacked to bits by people who probably couldn't even sharpen an axe correctly.

 

Anyway, back to playing with the Pillow Yari we just got in, which has a great polish already.

[Jon]

It’s interesting as this happens in lots of areas of historic items, I’m just starting to study Nihonto, but I’ve been an serious collector of coins for years, the rule of thumb with old coins is the greater the detail left the better, but ageing and colour changing in silver is part of the authenticity of the coin...the problem in the EBay age is people think shiny coins sell and they polish or clean them, collectors and people who study older hammered and milled coins don’t want shiny and you destroy the patina and surface by polishing, I’ve seen many a nice example of a thousand year old hammered coin polished by someone to make it look shiny, never realising they have destroyed a 1000 years of patina. Makes you want to cry.

[Stephen]

Just the other night I was watching a rerun of Anthony Bourdain's program he was in Japan with a sushi master who went back to his old apprentice shop they're laughing and joking about his 7-year apprenticeship.

So strict they couldn't make rice for the first two or three years.

Western way of thinking why should I have to apprenticeship for 7 years I can do that now.

No you cant thats why you have to be a apprentice!

Very few trades now  have apprenticeship in USA.  

Anyway something like that.

[weimar-police]

I have a blade that needs polishing, and no, I think I won't try...  A friend of mine saw a 1900 luger and it was, well, a bit shocking.  

Several areas had been metal turned (is that the right term, where it looks all circle like)?  It was a very, very rare variation.  It turns out that it had NOT been that way for very long.  The kids from the estate thought it would increase the value, kinda like an engraved pistol, but it was a disaster.  It was restored at great cost by an expert.  

[Scott Gunto]

Cardiologist? Don't waste your money bro...I got a mean little Xacto set man....

[Mac49]

Hi Everyone,

 

First of all, thank you to all of you for sharing your information. It it very useful to amateurs like me, and all of you just helped me to avoid making a big mistake.

I bought a tanto directly from a Japanese online auction (see pictures attached). It is signed, but I am not expecting a great value. Of course, I lack all knowledge to make a judgement.

It is the first Japanese blade I bought. My aim was to restore it in order to gain experience and buy a rusted Wakizashi or Katana blade afterwards, which I planned to restore too.

In the past, I restored most of the old tools of my grandfathers, and therefore thought that I had enough experience to 'clean up' this tanto. The more I inform myself, the more it seems that I was wrong :-)

 

The first post tackles a question that every amateur seems to have, including me: Is it better to leave the blade rusting? Given that rust harms the metal, and given that professional polishing is often too expensive compared to the value of the blade, and given that professional polishers don't seem to have time for lesser blades, given these pros are very scarce in some regions of the world, etc. The reality seems to be that a lot of blades never reach these professional polishers, and just continue to rust on someones shelf.

 

It seems only logic that an amateur can not judge if a blade is valuable or not. So my question is: If I contact a professional polisher, and he tells me my blade is of lesser value, than what would be best (most realistic) for the blade?

 

I want to apologize as I understand that this is a very important subject. But I really feel that everywhere I look for information, I get a theoretical answer on a practical question. I am sure that everyone would benefit from it if amateurs like me would have a (for us) understandable answer on why "it is better leave our blades to rust, than to remove its rust", even without removing much material, or using chemicals or other techniques that could affect the metal.

 

Thank you in advance!!!

 

Thomas

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[Brian]

Please try and upload as regular, common, user friendly jpegs.
I know most users will not bother with zip files.

[Mac49]

Of course, my apologies!

[Mark S.]

So a quick shoot from the hip evaluation.  It looks like a blade that was rusty, ‘cleaned’ with steel wool or sand paper and allowed to rust again.  I only say that because it ‘appears’ that there is rust over the numerous longitudinal scratches on blade, but it is really tough to tell. It would help to see bare blade with no habaki and more close ups.  
 

My recommendation for now is “do no more harm”… Clean blade with the highest concentration of isopropyl alcohol you can, then keep it well oiled.  Do not touch nakago except for very active red rest.  Some of the blade rust may come off with repeated oiling and cleaning.  Then seek out someone who can show you the proper way to use uchiko and obtain HIGH QUALITY uchiko.  The blade in its current condition probably won’t be harmed a lot more than it already is with gently uchiko applications.  You will need to be patient and resist the urge to hurry results.  That is probably the hardest part.  Over time (think months or even years - not hours or days) some of the activity may reveal itself.  It’s either that or just get it in the hands of a qualified polisher.

[Franco D]

If this were my blade the only thing that I would do is keep the blade oiled including a very light film of oil on the nakago. Then, change the oil about once a week being very careful not to rub any grit or dirt into the surface of the blade. In other words tamp the old oil off with an unscented plain clean kleenex instead of using a wiping motion. I would not recommend using uchiko to remove and change the oil here, especially on a blade with an uncleaned surface that is not free of rust. On active red rust I would change the oil daily until the rust is under control. When in doubt consult a qualified polisher. An electronics grade 99.9% anhydrous isopropyl alcohol will work to remove sword oil, but take full precautions as it is nasty stuff.