My first nihonto

[JD808]

Hey just wanted to share my first nihonto. Got it for what I believe is a good price(2225$usd-ebay auction) i know yall said to be wary of eBay and I am but I was told that this particular dealer is one of the few honest ones on ebay. Most pics are from him as I suck with my camera but I included a few pics myself. I'm super wet behind the eats so u apologize for any rookie mistakes on my part period when posting. What books would you recommend to accompany this sword so I can start to study it? Any other advice? (Here's the specs provided from dealer

Blade Jidai (era) :  circa 1600's

Shape : Shinogi Zukuri with A strong deep sori / curve

Horimono on both side : short single & double bohi on both side

School : Kaga

 Nagasa/cutting edge : 26-1/4"  or  66.7 cm

 Tang : 8-3/4" or 22.2 cm

Total blade length : 35"  or  88.9 cm

Blade thickness at the habaki notch : 6.86 mm

Width at the habaki : 1-3/16" or 3.0 cm

Width at yokote level : 3/4" or  1.9 cm

Sori/curve : 13/16" or  2.1 cm

Strong point : 1-1/4" or 3.2 cm

Katana Hamon : A beautiful superb & flashy big Doramba-ba on both side, with lots of Nie,

& there is big boshi turn-back on both side.) 

 

[ChrisW]

As far as I know, Eric is a member here, though he rarely posts. He is well-respected and while his prices are on the high end, he is usually willing to negotiate. He has good stuff and good stuff doesn't come cheap!

[JD808]

2 minutes ago, ChrisW said:

As far as I know, Eric is a member here, though he rarely posts. He is well-respected and while his prices are on the high end, he is usually willing to negotiate. He has good stuff and good stuff doesn't come cheap!

I agree. But I'm not questioning his legitimacy as a honest dealer im sharing my first acquisition and looking g

For any advice on study and books but thank you for your time though 

 

[JD808]

Added some more pics im concerned about these areas. In the item description it say no kizu or flaws of any kind. Deer I got it from does take returns. My question is are these kizu? And if so how bad. To my eyes there not that bad and I can live with it but with these potential flaws does it affect the value significantly?

Edited April 16, 2021 by JD808
Refined my question

[JD808]

One more pic 

[Katsujinken]

The first one is definitely a small ware. The others look like old rust pits. 
 

Grab yourself a copy of ‘The Connoisseur’s Book of Japanese Swords’. That’s pretty much the first book anyone should buy. 
 

Enjoy your sword!

[JD808]

19 minutes ago, Katsujinken said:

The first one is definitely a small ware. The others look like old rust pits. 
 

Grab yourself a copy of ‘The Connoisseur’s Book of Japanese Swords’. That’s pretty much the first book anyone should buy. 
 

Enjoy your sword!

Hey thanks for the help and I do have that one on the way any other titles?

[DoTanuki yokai]

For a general knowledge i love the "Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords" book and Kanzans The Japanese Sword.

For more detail of the craft the books where yoshindo yoshihara are involved are my favorites and then i think it gets specialized.

Also the Markus Sesko books are good and many good knowledge can be found here http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/index.html just check the terms and information area.

I want to say that sometimes a small ware turns out to be a bigger problem after a polish but i dont think this blade needs a new polish soon if you take good care of it.

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/flaws.html 

 

[ChrisW]

For a first blade, its a very nice piece! Most of us started with real dogs.

[Rivkin]

I can't kantei shinto (don't know much about it), but I can throw couple of guesses.

Its mostly straight with taper - its unlikely to be earlier than 1650. Would love to see yasurime and coloration of the nakago in detail, because nakago shape is something along the lines of what became more popular from 1665-1700 onwards - long, with pronounced taper. I would even think about shinshinto, but kissaki is a tad small to be characteristic to the period.

Hamon is sort of typical for the period, jigane is too tight, nie is too large to be the first tier work, but it is something that can be easily appreciated.

Looks like it has a long Edo [??] yakidashi, which is not too common and an unusual hakikake boshi, so I would go through references trying to find such specific combination. Chances are you'll get an exact name out of it.

 

P.S. I personally would not call this hamon doranba, its almost more like somebody copying Kotetsu or his circle rather than Sukehiro.

[JD808]

Would love to see yasurime and coloration of the nakago in detail, because nakago shape is something along the lines of what became more popular from 1665-1700 onwards - long, with pronounced taper. ( here's some pics of the nakago the best I can do with my phone hope ot helps)

[JD808]

[NewB]

Congrats!

 

To me - Ubu, papered Shinto is always a pleasure regardless of study or collection. Take good care of it. I hope that ware isn't deep as it is close to the hamon. If choji oil doesn't stay in there long after applying the uchiko ball then you are good, in my opinion. 

 

Cheers

 

John

[Greg F]

Congrats, nice looking sword.

You may want to search the board on the use of uchiko.

Its getting more common to use micro fibre instead as the uchiko gradually scratches the blade surface and dulls polish.

[JD808]

4 hours ago, Greg F said:

Congrats, nice looking sword.

You may want to search the board on the use of uchiko.

Its getting more common to use micro fibre instead as the uchiko gradually scratches the blade surface and dulls polish.

Thats what I've read in a few posts. I've never used the powder yet on the sword as I just got it and have not re oiled ot yet as well. I plan on using coffee filters to wipe off old oil and and a micro fiber cloth to apply it? Last thing I want to do is dull the polish. From the advice I've been getting is as long as I take good care of it won't need a polish for a long time and proper care should keep the wares from getting anyworse

[JD808]

I'm totally thankful for everyone's insight and advice and will try my best to follow the proper coarse. But no

 Ones seems to have any advice on one of my more important questions(at least to me). So ill ask again.can I get some honest opinion as whether I paid toomuch for it? 2225$ (usd) as I don't plan on selling it anytime soon but it would be nice to know I've made a good investment. I have 12 days to make my mind up. I know they ways say what matters most is if you like it. For me its true to a degree I'd still prefer to have good resale value when the times comes. Better yet id like yo know what a sword like this is worth? Thanks guys for helping a green horn!

[Katsujinken]

You pretty much paid retail, in my opinion. You didn’t get ripped off, but there are better deals to be had (usually here) if you are patient.

 

Mumei and shinto with no papers is very much a commodity package. If you do ever want to sell it you’ll need to be very patient to make your money back.  
 

As others have said, you can do a lot worse for a first blade. 
 

 

[JD808]

1 hour ago, Katsujinken said:

You pretty much paid retail, in my opinion. You didn’t get ripped off, but there are better deals to be had (usually here) if you are patient.

 

Mumei and shinto with no papers is very much a commodity package. If you do ever want to sell it you’ll need to be very patient to make your money back.  
 

As others have said, you can do a lot worse for a first 

Yes I agree and I plan on sending it for shinsa after enough study. Just wanted to atleast know  i didn't over pay. As for better deals to be had i agree I've seen really screaming deals pop up on here but let's me realistic newbies like me don't have a chance of getting them I monitor this forum daily and the "good deals" are snatched up before I have a chance to blink. So 2grand seems not bad to me for the blade.plus my first nihonto itch is scratched! It gives me time to study appreciate and save more for the really good stuff! Thanks guys for all the help

 

[Rivkin]

Yasurime can be shinto.

Regarding the price, the issue is the same as bringing a dealer's sword to a sword club - what are the chances of getting an honest opinion? 

I've sold a dozen pieces to Eric over the years, I obviously not going to badmouth his goods. And vice versa - if you bring up a sword from an unknown dealer, chances are people will badmouth it simply because its a competition they don't want.

So in questions like that, one is mostly on his own. I would certainly take all opinions with a lot of salt.

This sword will paper, and its pretty much known how it will paper, so the risks are probably minimal on this front. The price is not really high in terms of nihonto prices.

 

[Jwrussell]

Looks like a nice blade to my eyes, and a good price. But I'm very new myself.

[JD808]

2 hours ago, Rivkin said:

Yasurime can be shinto.

Regarding the price, the issue is the same as bringing a dealer's sword to a sword club - what are the chances of getting an honest opinion? 

I've sold a dozen pieces to Eric over the years, I obviously not going to badmouth his goods. And vice versa - if you bring up a sword from an unknown dealer, chances are people will badmouth it simply because its a competition they don't want.

So in questions like that, one is mostly on his own. I would certainly take all opinions with a lot of salt.

This sword will paper, and its pretty much known how it will paper, so the risks are probably minimal on this front. The price is not really high in terms of nihonto prices.

 

Hey thats the conclusion I came to last night and I get it no hard feelings on my part anywhere. Because to be honest one should study and learn enough to avoid situations like this. But I'm grateful for the whole experience because I'm learning ever step of the way.so that question has been thoroughly answered for me. Thanks guys

 

[Ed Harbulak]

You mentioned you plan to remove the old oil with a coffee filter and applying new oil with a microfiber cloth. Kleenex, facial or toilet tissue is fine for removing the old oil, but using a good grade of rubbing alcohol and tissue is the easier way to remove old oil from the blade. Use either the facial or toilet tissue to apply the fresh oil then wipe most of the oil off using a clean facial or toilet tissue. Only a thin film of oil is needed to keep the blade in good condition. If you search this site I'm sure you will find plenty of advice on how to remove or apply sword oil. Good luck with your new sword, it's a lot nicer than most people's first blade. 

[Katsujinken]

Good grade of rubbing alcohol = the highest concentration you can get. I buy 99% whenever possible (remember anything that’s not alcohol in there is water). 

[Ed Harbulak]

If you can purchase 99% alcohol, that's a great choice. Don't get overly worried about the tiny amount of water in the alcohol, remember when a sword polisher polishes a blade he uses plenty of water. Just be sure to have a thin film of oil on it when you put it back in the saya.

[NewB]

I rarely use the uchiko ball for aforementioned reasons but I suggested it as it would stick to any oil in the ware so if there's still oil residue after wiping it, then the ware is deep. Otherwise I agree with most on the uchiko judgement although I have used it all these years without any issues so far (once in a blue moon). I hope you are happy with your blade and the price paid. Protect it in good health!

 

Cheers

 

John

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

looks nice to me for the price - welcome to the herd!

[Ken-Hawaii]

Del, there's no reason to worry about removing old oil, under most conditions. I've received a couple of blades with the oil sort of "condensing," into small sticky globs, & those were the only times when I needed to use denatured alcohol to clean everything off, before reoiling. Using uchiko on a decently polished blade isn't a good idea.

 

As far as getting your money's worth, I think you did okay. An ubu Shinto blade is perfectly reasonable as a starter. As Kirill pointed out, Eric doesn't sell junk, & my dealings with him have always been positive.

 

Now that you've invested in your first blade, it's time to invest lots of time in studying. Connoisseur is an excerllent reference, but trying to study & learn from it alone, is like trying to use an unabridged dictionary, while you're still learning how to spell. I would start with https://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Sword-Handbook-John-Yumoto/dp/4805309571/ followed by https://www.amazon.com/Facts-Fundamentals-Japanese-Swords-Collectors/dp/1568365837/  That will give you a good initial library, & you can add to that as you find more specific interests.

[JD808]

5 hours ago, Ken-Hawaii said:

Del, there's no reason to worry about removing old oil, under most conditions. I've received a couple of blades with the oil sort of "condensing," into small sticky globs, & those were the only times when I needed to use denatured alcohol to clean everything off, before reoiling. Using uchiko on a decently polished blade isn't a good idea.

 

As far as getting your money's worth, I think you did okay. An ubu Shinto blade is perfectly reasonable as a starter. As Kirill pointed out, Eric doesn't sell junk, & my dealings with him have always been positive.

 

Now that you've invested in your first blade, it's time to invest lots of time in studying. Connoisseur is an excerllent reference, but trying to study & learn from it alone, is like trying to use an unabridged dictionary, while you're still learning how to spell. I would start with https://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Sword-Handbook-John-Yumoto/dp/4805309571/ followed by https://www.amazon.com/Facts-Fundamentals-Japanese-Swords-Collectors/dp/1568365837/  That will give you a good initial library, & you can add to that as you find more specific interests.

I couldn't have put it into q

Words any better. Thank you all! For taking  the time to help me out. I'm goin to put all this advice to good use

[Yasaka Azuma]

It's good.

 

[Rookie]

Hello

I came upon this thread and was wondering...

 

Is this the same sword? Description and pics are identical...

Look at this on eBay
SUPERB KAGA KATANA ca. 1600'S + HORIMONO + FULL POLISH - Japanese Sword Tsuba

 

 

 

Thank you for your patience,

rookie