Arsenal Mark on RJT sword Fittings

[BANGBANGSAN]

27 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

 

Where did you find his prefecture?  I don't see him in Slough (Slough has one but a different mei), Sesko, RJT list, nor Nihonto Club.

Bruce

Here you go  http://ohmura-study.net/025.html

大東亜戦末期の刀 匠と序列
(昭和19年陸軍軍刀技術奨励会に見る刀匠と位列)    

【入選指定刀匠の部】 Second roll Number 8

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Wow!  Thanks guys!

 

First Yasumitsu, and second Masatomo on the Star-blade list.

[Kiipu]

Aichi Prefecture

☆　三州住筒井清兼作　１１５ = ☆ Sanshū jū Tsutsui Kiyokane saku 115

☆　昭和十九年二月日 = ☆ A day in February 1944

Star stamped on both sides, sideways serial number the same as used by Aichi swordsmith Kanemitsu 兼光.

Star Stamped Tsutsui Kiyokane Blade, Post #26

@Ganko

 

Kōchi Prefecture, Shikoku

☆　建依別山村善貞　kao = ☆ Tateyoriwake Yamamura Yoshisada plus koa.

昭和十九年四月日 = A day in April 1944.

Nakago mune: 38.

Help translating, hopefully not a gimei or at least a good one

@mecox

[Bruce Pennington]

5 hours ago, Kiipu said:

昭和十九年二月日 = ☆ A day in February 1944

Thomas,

I had @Ganko's blade down as May '44.  If it's a Feb, aren't the horizontal strokes too far apart?  Looks like a poorly struck '5' to me:

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 10/7/2022 at 8:56 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

 

 

Bruce

Do you have 松 22 in your data?

Another 繼延作   昭和十八年三月日 松 22

継延( Tsugunobu)  from 群馬県（Gunma）。

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce Pennington

RS mount , star stamped

 

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Do you have 松 22 in your data?

That's a significant find, Trystan!  Now we have Niigata, Nagano, and Gunma prefectures using the Matsu stamp.  All 3 clumped together.  If they have been scattered, that would say something else, but they are all bordering each other.  But WHAT it says, I certainly don't know.

 

 

Tsugunobu, like many of the others, were switched to the Gunma kana between this sword - Mar 1943 - and the only other kana + number sword we have on him - Jul 1944 - ク705.

 

Here's the updated Matsu chart:

 

Matsu

1941, July	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	106  (RS ana)	Slough
1941, Sep	Niigata	Akihisa (RJT)	249  Type 98	Trotter Survey, no pics
1941, Sep	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	308  Type 98	Trotter Collection
1941, Dec	Niigata	Akihisa (RJT)	566  RS Model	Windy NMB
?	Niigata	Akihisa (RJT)	松 61 RS	Trotter Survey, no pics
?	Niigata	Akihisa (RJT)	松 97	NMB
1942, Feb	Niigata	Akihisa (RJT)	松 542 RS star	Trotter Survey, no pics
1942, Apr	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	松 11 RS	Trotter Survey, no pics
1942, Nov	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	松 422 ? star	Trotter Survey, no pics
1942, Nov	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	松 433 RS star	Trotter Survey, no pics
1942, Oct	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	松 451 RS	Davidequis NMB
1942, Dec	Niigata	Akihisa (RJT)	松 577 RS star	MacTheWhopper NMB
1943, Jan	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	松 508 T98 star	Trotter Survey, no pics
1943, Feb	Nagano	Kiyokuni (RJT)	松 16	Ray Singer, NMB
1943, Feb	Nagano	Chikafusa (RJT)	松 20	Bangbangsan, NMB
1943, Mar	Niigata	Akihisa (RJT)	松 618 RS star	Schmucker Collection
1943, Mar	Niigata	Akihisa (RJT)	松 819 RS star	Vajo, Trotter Survey
1943, Mar	Nagano	Kiyokuni (RJT)	松 16	Guest Rayhan, NMB
1943, Mar	Gunma	Tsugunobu (RJT)	松 22 RS Star	Bangbangsan, NMB  RS
1943, May	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	松 1080 RS star	Trotter Collection, イ403 on fittings
1943, May	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	松 1082 RS star	baldi1942 NMB
1943, Oct	Niigata	Akihisa (RJT)	松 1377 RS star	Trotter Survey, no pics
1943, Nov	Niigata	Munetoshi (RJT)	松 443 RS star	? NMB

[george trotter]

Be good for Bruce's records  to know if that Matsu 22  RS Star Tsugunobu's fittings have a katakana/number?

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, george trotter said:

Be good for Bruce's records  to know if that Matsu 22  RS Star Tsugunobu's fittings have a katakana/number?

No more photos

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce Pennington

Do you have this one?From member Daniel(Sweden)。Star stamped RS with leather cover, the number is 615.

昭孝 Akitaka  昭和十八年一月吉日

 

[Kiipu]

5 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Star stamped RS with leather cover, the number look like 615?

 

Cross-Reference

☆　昭孝 = ☆ Akitaka.

昭和十八年一月吉日　６１５ = A lucky day in January 1943 615.

Another star stamped gendaito

[Bruce Pennington]

8 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Do you have this one?From member Daniel(Sweden)。Star stamped RS with leather cover, the number is 615.

Thanks, but yes.  I have it filed from his original post.

[Kiipu]

Niigata Prefecture

昭孝 Akitaka.

昭和十八年四月吉日　１０９８ = A lucky day in April 1943 1098.

Star stamped removed?

Courtesy of @Ray Singer

Show Us Your High Class Gunto, Page 7

[Bruce Pennington]

Looks like something was removed, but it's on the date side.  I did some random sampling and it seems the star is normally on the mei side.  Peculiar.

[Kiipu]

It looks like both the Akitaka's 昭孝 are missing the matsu 松 prefix?  Other than that, they fit right in with Niigata.

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce Pennington @Kiipu

Guys, here is a Star stamped Kaneoto兼音 in RS mount,no Ser#.
関住藤井兼音作   昭和十九年二月 1944 Feb.
The signature looks different than his not dated Non-RJT work.

 

[vajo]

Looks a little strange.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

11 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Guys, here is a Star stamped Kaneoto兼音 in RS mount,no Ser#.
関住藤井兼音作   昭和十九年二月 1944 Feb.
The signature looks different than his not dated Non-RJT work.

The difference could be due to a nakirishimei.  Slough has many examples of variations due to this with other smiths.  I have never seen a gimei with authentic looking "Na" stamps like this.

[george trotter]

Nakirishi mei on a RJT blade? I would be surprised as this was 'unlawful' - the RJT rules say the sword must be signed and dated by the smith who made it.

Be interested to know if it is nakirishi mei - has anyone else got one?

[BANGBANGSAN]

26 minutes ago, george trotter said:

Nakirishi mei on a RJT blade? I would be surprised as this was 'unlawful' - the RJT rules say the sword must be signed and dated by the smith who made it.

Be interested to know if it is nakirishi mei - has anyone else got one?

I think the blade without the date like these, mei was done by 切銘師, and the other one with the star stamp's mei was done by 兼音 himself.

,

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, george trotter said:

RJT rules say the sword must be signed and dated by the smith who made it.

Thanks George, I might remember reading that years ago! Ha!

 

I admit, I'm not even "Newbie" qualified to talk about mei, but I browsed a bit through my star-stamped files and here is a comparison of 2 Kanetsugu blades, and they are BOTH star-stamped.  Look at the "Kane" kanji, and they're not even close.  I don't see why variations, over time, in a smith's mei are surprising.  People do stuff like that in real life too.

 

Here's one on a blade with no star, and the variation is even worse:

 

[Kiipu]

@BANGBANGSAN Below is another 兼音 to compare to the one you posted above.

☆　関住藤井兼音作　☆ Seki jū Fujii Kaneoto saku.

　　昭和十九年五月　May 1944.

Note how both swords have red and green/blue painted numbers.

Pictures courtesy of @AirDog01.

Another signature request

[george trotter]

That what I usually expect to see Tristan. 

Thanks Bruce...very interesting. Hard to say if the meis are by different signers or just variations in one signer's writing over time.

Hmmm, I will have to look more closely from now on.

 

As they say...never say never, so maybe even RJT scheme rules were broken at times.

 

Thanks for that info.

Anyone else got examples?

[BANGBANGSAN]

Star stamped Type 98, no Ser#。
重房作 Shigefusa  
壬午十一月 1942.November
Not sure if he is the same 重房（ 6th Generation 重房 -若林重次 Wakabayashi Shigetsugu） who worked for Mantetsu from 1937-1941。

 

[Bruce Pennington]

23 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

重房作 Shigefusa  
壬午十一月 1942.November
Not sure if he is the same 重房（ 6th Generation 重房 -若林重次 Wakabayashi Shigetsugu） who worked for Mantetsu from 1937-1941。

Thanks Trystan!  The only RJT Shigefusa I find reference to is Kojima.  Wakabayashi is discussed in Slough & Sesko without mention of RJT work.  So, I say this was from Kojima Shigefusa.

 

Boy that zodiacal dating, without having the Showa written first, throws me every time!

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Thanks Trystan!  The only RJT Shigefusa I find reference to is Kojima.  Wakabayashi is discussed in Slough & Sesko without mention of RJT work.  So, I say this was from Kojima Shigefusa.

 

Boy that zodiacal dating, without having the Showa written first, throws me every time!

Bruce

若林重房 Wakabayashi Shigefusa  is RJT smith .Read the Thomas's post from Nick's article

"In 1941, the family returned to Japan and settled again in Aizu, where he was later accredited as Rikugun Jumei Tosho (army licensed sword smith).  Shigetsugu had also signed his earlier commercial work as Shigefusa, but registered as Wakabayashi Shigetsugu in the RJT program.  Even so, he made a good number of swords for the black market to be sold as antiques, in which he used the generations old mei of Shigefusa."

His name also list http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/gendai2.htm

Under Rikugun Jumei Tosho Swordsmiths Known From Literature Sources
3rd Roll 

   

He is also list here https://www.tsuruginoya.com/infomation/data/iretsu-seidai

 

[Kiipu]

8 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

So, I say this was from Kojima Shigefusa.

 

Ditto!  Trystan, stop reading anime アニメ and start reading something like this instead.

Tokushima Swordsmiths

 

And another one to compare to.

Help with Star stamped shingunto please.

@mecox

[BANGBANGSAN]

6 hours ago, Kiipu said:

 

Ditto!  Trystan, stop reading anime アニメ and start reading something like this instead.

 

 

Yes Sir

[Bruce Pennington]

And the article states he registered RJT a Wakabayashi Shigetsugu, so it would seem logical (don't know how strictly it would have been followed) to think his star-stamped blades would be under that name, not Shigefusa.

[BANGBANGSAN]

越後住貞清 Ser#タ1518 in Shirasaya, the star stamp is not very clear, but it seems located on the upper left of MekugiAna.

昭和十八年十月吉日( said on the register paper).

I don't have any photos of the dating side of the tang.