Can anyone help give any information at all on this katana?

[Fathergascan]

I've had this sword for about 2 years, and I've had a few people tell me its this and that, and I dont really know. So i feel like anyone on here will know more than me.

(I can get better pictures if you need)

Also worth noting that I'm completely new to this site and to collecting nihonto, only been doing it about 2 years and I've done a little research on each buy, but who knows if it is good research, that said, I'm eager to learn.

[Fathergascan]

 

 

[Fathergascan]

[Fathergascan]

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

Ive never seen the Bohi go all the way through the nakago before.  Waiting more educated responses with #popcorn

[Katsujinken]

13 minutes ago, Infinite_Wisdumb said:

Ive never seen the Bohi go all the way through the nakago before.  Waiting more educated responses with #popcorn

This is common on osuriage blades. Better photos that show more detail of the hamon and the tip would help with evaluation. 
 

At first blush this may be Muromachi or even late Nanbokucho. The nakago sori and amount of implied shortening point to Koto for me...

 

But we need more photos. 

[Fathergascan]

Here's more pictures, if you need something specific please let me know.

The hamon is faded, but you can still see the grain decently which is interesting.

[Fathergascan]

[Fathergascan]

[Fathergascan]

[ChrisW]

Looks Koto to me, greatly o-suriage, without any remaining original nakago, its impossible to tell.

[Fathergascan]

[Fathergascan]

4 minutes ago, ChrisW said:

Looks Koto to me, greatly o-suriage, without any remaining original nakago, its impossible to tell.

Yeah, definitely was cut down. I wish I could see the file marks, any thoughts on what's visible of the hamon?

Or does the overall shape say anything?

[ChrisW]

Hamon is very difficult to see, looks Midare with some Suguha mixed in. But experts with far more expertise should chime in soon.

[Katsujinken]

It’s tough to say really. The blade is out of polish, but it’s not in bad shape. Definitely worth preserving and maybe worth restoring depending on your appetite for spending money. If you’re looking to make money that’s a big gamble. 
 

Please do not try to improve the blade yourself and do not work with someone without formal training in Japan. That list of people outside of Japan is VERY short. Ask here first. 
 

But this is a solid sword with potential. I’m sure other folks with even more expertise will chime in. 
 

Do you know how to care for the blade properly? Lots of resources to be found here. 

 

 

[ChrisW]

This should help for maintenance: http://www.nbthk-ab.org/swordcare.pdf

[Fathergascan]

4 minutes ago, Katsujinken said:

It’s tough to say really. The blade is out of polish, but it’s not in bad shape. Definitely worth preserving and maybe worth restoring depending on your appetite for spending money. If you’re looking to make money that’s a big gamble. 
 

Please do not try to improve the blade yourself and do not work with someone without formal training in Japan. That list of people outside of Japan is VERY short. Ask here first. 
 

But this is a solid sword with potential. I’m sure other folks with even more expertise will chime in. 
 

Do you know how to care for the blade properly? Lots of resources to be found here. 

 

 

Ok, and yes I have a little kit, been oiling it every month-ish since I got it. Seems likely its koto so far, that's what the original people i contacted said too.

And I would never try to do anyhting besides maintenance on it, I know about that, wouldnt dream of it.

Looking forward to see what other say, thank you all so much.

[quoshy]

Seems like a pretty nice blade. Could be worth getting professionally polished. 

 

The bohi going all the way to end of the nakago is a strong indicator that it's been (significantly) cut down at some point. It's not terribly uncommon. At best, this could be a VERY vague indication of age. I don't think I've seen this on a blade newer than early Edo. Here's a few examples of bohis going to the end of the nakago.

https://tokka.biz/sword/norimitsu3.html

https://tokka.biz/sword/tadayoshi17.html

https://tokka.biz/sword/kiyomitsu6.html

[16k]

I’m tempted to say Nambokucho era, so pretty old and very much shortened. Looks to be a very nice blade. My only concern (but it my just be because the blade is out of polish, and anyway, it is frequent in very old blade), is that the Hamon seem to run pretty close to the ha. I see some togari in the Hamon, so "might" be Mino den.

[Jacques]

2 hours ago, quoshy said:

Seems like a pretty nice blade. Could be worth getting professionally polished. 

 

The bohi going all the way to end of the nakago is a strong indicator that it's been (significantly) cut down at some point. It's not terribly uncommon. At best, this could be a VERY vague indication of age. I don't think I've seen this on a blade newer than early Edo. 

 

 

No, it's not a strong indicator that it has been suriage and you can see this kind of bo-hi (called ryo-chiri or kata-chiri) on Shinshinto swords (thery are rare on Shinto but some times seen on blades of Horikawa, Tadayoshi schools or by Hankei).

 

https://www.tsuruginoya.com/items/f00183.html

https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-teme-otsuka-kazunobu-kun-sekido-unju-korekazu-seitan-saku-koreansei-5-nen-inu-uma-2-gatsu-hi/ 

[Prewar70]

What are the measurements ?

[Fathergascan]

It would be pretty crazy if it was anywhere near that old, the fitting are still very solid and theres no rattling. I'm thinking on on a polish job for sure, would love recommendations on where to do that. 

I'll get the measurements, thought I had a pic of that but idk rn

[16k]

The blade and the mountings are two different things. Most mountings that come with swords are 18th, 19th century mountings. Blades can be much older.

[Fathergascan]

3 minutes ago, 16k said:

The blade and the mountings are two different things. Most mountings that come with swords are 18th, 19th century mountings. Blades can be much older.

Fair enough 

[Fathergascan]

15 hours ago, Prewar70 said:

What are the measurements ?

Here-

Nagasa: 25in.

Nakago: 6 3/4in

Kissaki: 1 3/8in

Sori: 5/8in

Blade width: 1 1/8in

[Karusk]

With a 25 in nagasa and a nakago of 6 you can estimate the original nagasa was at least 30 inches or even more. I would think more. The color of the nakago suggests it was cutdown during the  muromachi period as it takes an extremely long time to get that deep thick patina.  You can also assume that missing the original nakago its been cut down at least three times. Probably even more as they dont usually just cut the whole nakago off the first time. It was probably first cut down due to the change in fighting styles awhen such huge swords became a liability. Miyamoto Mushashi went around kicking everyones ass dual wielding short one handers around 1600 and everyone followed suit.(i know theres other reasons humor me)  This  points to it at least being Koto(pre 1596) which is extremely desirable to all of us. The polish appears to be a preservation polish and not a full art polish. 

 

is there a kissaki line? The line going from the edge to the bohi near the tip? If not its shobu zukuri which also is an indication of greater age in the presence of such a cutdown piece. 
 

Id say this  would probably be worth at least submitting to shinsa. A fine first piece. 

[Fathergascan]

11 hours ago, Karusk said:

With a 25 in nagasa and a nakago of 6 you can estimate the original nagasa was at least 30 inches or even more. I would think more. The color of the nakago suggests it was cutdown during the  muromachi period as it takes an extremely long time to get that deep thick patina.  You can also assume that missing the original nakago its been cut down at least three times. Probably even more as they dont usually just cut the whole nakago off the first time. It was probably first cut down due to the change in fighting styles awhen such huge swords became a liability. Miyamoto Mushashi went around kicking everyones ass dual wielding short one handers around 1600 and everyone followed suit.(i know theres other reasons humor me)  This  points to it at least being Koto(pre 1596) which is extremely desirable to all of us. The polish appears to be a preservation polish and not a full art polish. 

 

is there a kissaki line? The line going from the edge to the bohi near the tip? If not its shobu zukuri which also is an indication of greater age in the presence of such a cutdown piece. 
 

Id say this  would probably be worth at least submitting to shinsa. A fine first piece. 

Wow that's amazing to hear, I can check when I'm home, but I dont think it has a kissaki line, or at least it is very hard to see. What time period would the lack of a kissaki line be in?

[Fathergascan]

12 hours ago, Karusk said:

With a 25 in nagasa and a nakago of 6 you can estimate the original nagasa was at least 30 inches or even more. I would think more. The color of the nakago suggests it was cutdown during the  muromachi period as it takes an extremely long time to get that deep thick patina.  You can also assume that missing the original nakago its been cut down at least three times. Probably even more as they dont usually just cut the whole nakago off the first time. It was probably first cut down due to the change in fighting styles awhen such huge swords became a liability. Miyamoto Mushashi went around kicking everyones ass dual wielding short one handers around 1600 and everyone followed suit.(i know theres other reasons humor me)  This  points to it at least being Koto(pre 1596) which is extremely desirable to all of us. The polish appears to be a preservation polish and not a full art polish. 

 

is there a kissaki line? The line going from the edge to the bohi near the tip? If not its shobu zukuri which also is an indication of greater age in the presence of such a cutdown piece. 
 

Id say this  would probably be worth at least submitting to shinsa. A fine first piece. 

Also you said it would be worth submitting in to Shinsa, how would I go about doing that? Thank you for your input and compliments

[Karusk]

With every one else opinion on this lining up with my own id say at least very late nambokucho. Its not something that absolutely never happens in later periods, but coupled with the extreme cutdowns and the color if the nakago im comfortable saying late nambokucho, early muromachi period. 1400-1500. I think everyone here would be hesitant to claim a value for their reputations, but id say if i had set my sights on this at auction i would back out before i went over 1500 bucks. Just because of the lack of paper/provenance and the fact that you can find papered stuff around that price.  

 

Its in much better condition than the first things i ever bought. 

[Karusk]

From what I understand they have them in America every year or so in San Francisco and Tampa. They have caneled this years. Otherwise you have to send an oshigata to the organization in Japan. Therese NBTHK NTHK JTK and JASMK. 

 

I need to send one out myself but really have no idea of how to go about it either. Hopefully one of these other guys will educate us.