Edo era? or earlier?

[tomt]

Hi Everyone,

I recently got this armour, kind of spur of the moment, from a seller in Japan. 

Its still in transit but in the mean time I'm trying to get a decent estimate on how old it is, as I basically know nothing, ill take any help i can get!

 

Here's some information from the sales listing:

Maker: Azuchi–Momoyama to Edo era in the Kaga Domain. 

Mon: Suhama (Mon reference)

Reference / Busho who used this crest: Oda Ujiharu, Sanada clan, Suyama clan,

Teramachi clan, Ibaraki clan, Yoshida clan, Iba clan, Shishido clan.

Material Kabuto: Iron & Japanese lacquer. 
Material do(body): Nerikawa & Japanese lacquer. 

 

and apparently the damage to the Kabuto is battle damage, but I'm not sure whether that would be true?

also who might have worn armour like this?

in the listing it says "Used by only very high rank the busho, daimyo." this isnt true right?

 

Thanks in advance for the help

 

 

 

 

 

says "96" apparently

[YOJIMBO]

low end

[uwe]

Welcome Tomas!

 

Well, okashi-gusoku (lent armor, “加賀藩” Kaga-Han).  Maedate can be called “猪目前立” (inome maedate), also typical Kaga.

The dou is an so called hotoke-dou (roku-mai/ryō takahimo, in this case) and numbered inside with “九十六” (96). In terms of age, I’ve still to do some research....

 

 

BTW: The last sentence in the listing is obviously a joke....

[uwe]

Some additional thoughts:

The dō is lacking some features that could be expected of early Edo or Momoyama and it is in astonishing good condition for an nerikawa (leather) cuirass of that age. You can spot unpleasant (irreparable) apparition of old leather parts on the gessan, for example (distinctly warped).

A second look reveals, that the back part of the dō has a different number “三十(五)?)....howsoever.

 

Oh, and for the kabuto. I guess it was rather a low ceiling beam....

 

[tomt]

15 hours ago, YOJIMBO said:

low end

Yeah I'm aware, but I don't exactly have the funds right now to buy a full set of true samurai armour.

This is antique armour made for battle over 250 years ago , and that's still quite cool and interesting to me despite its "value". 

[tomt]

14 hours ago, uwe said:

Welcome Tomas!

 

Well, okashi-gusoku (lent armor, “加賀藩” Kaga-Han).  Maedate can be called “猪目前立” (inome maedate), also typical Kaga.

The dou is an so called hotoke-dou (roku-mai/ryō takahimo, in this case) and numbered inside with “九十六” (96). In terms of age, I’ve still to do some research....

 

 

BTW: The last sentence in the listing is obviously a joke....

 

7 hours ago, uwe said:

Some additional thoughts:

The dō is lacking some features that could be expected of early Edo or Momoyama and it is in astonishing good condition for an nerikawa (leather) cuirass of that age. You can spot unpleasant (irreparable) apparition of old leather parts on the gessan, for example (distinctly warped).

A second look reveals, that the back part of the dō has a different number “三十(五)?)....howsoever.

 

Oh, and for the kabuto. I guess it was rather a low ceiling beam....

 

 

Hey,

Thanks for all information, you certainly seem to know your stuff!

With the Maedate, why would they make it inome, and not a specific Mon? is it sort of like a white label armour sold to whoever?

And Im guessing the numbers don't really mean anything then? was it just a way to keep track of mass produced armour?

 

and for the age, i did manage to find a similar helmet online that had the age listed as the late edo period, but it wasn't the most reliable looking source.

 

sorry for all the questions, and thanks again for your help!

[Iekatsu]

Tom,

 

This style of kabuto is relatively common, as Uwe mentioned they were mass produced for Okashi-Gusoku (loan Armour) in Kaga and date to the Edo period. The Dou are far less common though, I have seen a couple of partial sets of these Okashi-Gusoku, they tend to be comprised of a simple 6 plate kabuto, Tsubame Hanbo, Hotoke Dou and simple Sangu with rounded plates. Each element is finished in the same lacquer as the helmet and Dou and the Ie-ji (baking fabric) tends to be light blue or tan Asa (hemp) with Mid blue trim. I have attached a couple of images below for reference, note the Haidate (Thigh guards) and Suneate (Shin guards) do not belong to the set.

 

 

The damage to the Hachi is likely just from neglect, it appears to have rusted through. While not high end items or in good condition there are things to learn from such items, I hope they bring you joy.

[Greg F]

Tom I agree that regardless of monetary value it is cool and an important part of history too.

[Luc T]

Value is not the same as price.