Mei Help Please, Is My Sword The Real Deal?

[MichaelW]

Hi, I own a samurai sword. Not sure if it's real or not. I think this Mei reads "Sadamune"? But obviously couldn't be THE Sadamune. Does that mean it's a fake? (was there another Sadamune? could the mei have been added to an unsigned sword?). Also, the fuchi is signed too...can anyone translate this and does anyone have any info on the maker? Any help is much appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Michael, It is a real sword and is Sadamune signed. Not by the famous Soshu one, since the mei does not match, but, I can not say it is gimei of Hosho Sadamune or another or not. John

[MichaelW]

Here are some more pics of the sword and fittings. Do these look authentic? I bought this sword years ago off the 'net from someone in California who claimed they got it at an estate sale from a soldier who brought it back from the war.

[John A Stuart]

The tsuba looks fresh, the tsuka has been restored and the menuki look fairly new as well. Some other may comment on the fuchi. Generally I would say the sword has been remounted with repro fittings. Could you post a pic of the blade showing the hamon and jihada. John

[Nobody]

The Mei on the fuchi reads Muneoki (宗興) and Kao. But I do not know its genuineness.

[Stephen]

a boys day sword, at first post I thought it may be a sword cane until I seen following photos. singed Sadamune does not mean its a fake just looks like a nice presentation boys day sword from the 1920-30s or so.

[MichaelW]

John and Koichi,

 

Thank you for your prompt replies! Domo arigatou gozaimashita!

 

My digital camera sucks. I had a hard time trying to capture a decent close-up of the hamon and the jihada. I don't think the attached photo helps much. Any suggestions of best photo/lighting techniques?

 

I thought too maybe the fittings had been added later because the blade wiggles a bit in the collar and is not tight (this is the only samurai sword I've ever handled, so I don't know much...is this common...can this happen with age?)

 

So when did other swordsmiths named Sadamune live? Any idea as to the age of this sword?

 

Thanks again,

 

Michael

[MichaelW]

Stephen,

 

 

As I said, this is my only sword and I'm very ignorant. So what identifies this as a Boy's Day sword? Was it common to give full sized and sharp katana on this holiday?

 

Thanks.

[Bungo]

menuki looks alright to me, so's the tsuba.............

 

milt THE ronin

[Stephen]

it may seem to be full size but the narrow handle show us that its not make for a full grown man. Probably a young teen, how long is the blade you never did give us details. They started at a early age in receiving gifts for ceremonies that they thought gave them a jump start on manhood, you can do a search on the net or maybe Nobody can tell you the name of such ceremonies.

 

PS see milt jumped in as i was posting yes the Tsuba and Nuks look good for the age of the sword...

[Bungo]

as a matter of fact, I think the menukis is " box good " ( I think Ron Hartman invented that term meaning you keep the good stuff in a box suitable for display and fondle for details )................

 

looks like a handachi set up

 

milt THE ronin

[Brian]

Michael,

 

I think you did very well. Looks like a decent sword. I do like those fittings, and Milt has a good expression there...I understand when fittings seem too nice to mount so they go in a box to appreciate on their own. Very unique (to me) menuki. Wonder what the theme is?

To me the mei looks like it was cut much later. Could be wrong, but it doesn't look original to the blade. But shouldn't detract too much from the overall sword.

Catch comment on the Boy's day Sword theory until we know the sizes. Especially the blade length/width etc. I also lean towards the handachi guess unless the dimensions are unusually small.

Take good care of it, and maybe take it with to one of the sword shows for a closer examination.

 

Brian

[MichaelW]

Brian,

 

Attached are some more pics, including some measurement pics. When I got the sword the wooden peg was sticking halfway out of it (the guy who sold it to me did a botched job of putting it back together). I had no problem disassembling it, but getting the peg back in correctly wasn't easy (I could hear it flexing the handle and didn't want to damage it). Anyway...I don't plan on taking it apart again anytime soon. Now that I'm looking at my measurement pics, I realize that I should have used a string to gauge the actual length of it because the blade is curved (anybody good at calculus? ), or are the curves not taken into account went talking about blade length? . So it's approx. 84c x 2.6c (or a little over 32in x 1in).

 

You've got a great message board Brian! Thanks everyone.

 

Michael

[MichaelW]

a couple more pics.

[Brian]

The blade length is measured in a straight line across the back..from the tip to the notch where the brass habaki sits against.

See here : http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/measure.htm

Just the nagasa would be necessary for now I think.

I am not an expert..but that mei does definitely look badly cut and looks a bit high on the nakago? I wouldn't let that get to you though...appreciate the blade, not the signature.

Does look like a nice sword, let's see what the more advanced guys say.

 

Edit- Looks like it might be around 25.5 nagasa? That would make it a katana, and looks to be in decent condition with no obvious signs of damage. That doesn't rule out flaws..but have seen a lot worse. make sure you go through the links above for info on how to care for it.

 

Brian

[Rich T]

The Mei on the fuchi reads Muneoki (宗興) and Kao. But I do not know its genuineness.

 

Michael, Koichi et all. Firstly, the fuchi is signed Soyo, not Muneoki. It is Soyo ( Kao ) This is the mei of Soyo II, the next in line after Somin and a very famous maker. He worked in the late 1700's. This is likely to be gimei but without better images it is hard to tell.

 

The tsuka has been put together, nothing matches in workmanship and theme and whilst the pieces all look genuine ( not sure about those menuki though ) they are not original to the sword. Also, the Ito wrap is very very new and somewhat uneven, and the Same is also very new so I would assume this koshirae has been put together recently.

 

Hope that all helps some.

 

Cheers

 

Rich Turner

[Nobody]

The Mei on the fuchi reads Muneoki (宗興) and Kao. But I do not know its genuineness.

 

Michael, Koichi et all. Firstly, the fuchi is signed Soyo, not Muneoki. It is Soyo ( Kao ) This is the mei of Soyo II, the next in line after Somin and a very famous maker. He worked in the late 1700's.

Thanks Rich. I failed to identify the 2nd kanji. The correct inscription must be 宗與.

[Nobody]

Very unique (to me) menuki. Wonder what the theme is?

Isn't it an impersonated spider?

[Bungo]

as a rule of thumb............look for minor details.

The big nodules of the sama, the cherry bark lacquer of the saya.

All these are quite fine.

Also I don't believe in the edo days all the various components of the koshirae have to match a " theme ", this is my personal opinion ( based on observations over 20 years of sword shows' piles of rusty swords ).

 

Put in a another way.......there's everyday wears and there's formal wears.

If the future generation judges the tuxedo ( high quality as befit in museum collection ) as the " norm " then they may have a " distorted " view of what people wear in the 20th century .

 

And I am not drinking koolaid ............

 

milt THE ronin

[Bungo]

Very unique (to me) menuki. Wonder what the theme is?

Isn't it an impersonated spider?

 

could be an Oni ( note the stick like weapon ).

I recall reading a collector has an ivory okimono of an oni missing the weapon....lo and behold, he found it on someone's junk box in the sword show and it's a perfect match !! It was written up in some sword society newsletter years ago.

 

milt The ronin

[Nobody]

I just found similar menuki on bidders.

 

http://www.bidders.co.jp/item/77372485

[John A Stuart]

HI All, I looked at the bidders item from Antique Heaven and is it too not a reproduction at $120. Of course it doesn't say either way. It looks nice but I still think modern. As well the punch marks in the seppa dai on the tsuba show bright copper with no oxidation. They are great looking but makes me think modern all together. How can you tell in pics of really good repros age otherwise? Curious, John

[Guido]

Not by the famous Soshu one, since the mei does not match, ...

There are Zaimei Sadamune to compare the signature with?

[John A Stuart]

Hi Guido, That's a good one. The theory being they were never extant. Some mumei Sadamune. In fact I read backwards and compared the mei to Hosho Sadamune. There are only the two examples of zaimei that have been generally dismissed. The Takagi Sadamune examples. Excuse my confusion and forgetfullness. John

[MichaelW]

First off, thank you to everyone for your posts!

 

I must say that I'm as much confused as enlightened about my sword (thank goodness for Google...just so I could figure out the difference between gimei, zaimei, and mumei and decipher what you guys are talking about; I also just ordered Sato's "The Japanese Sword" from Amazon so I can get more up to speed).

 

Even though I'm totally new to this, I kind of got the feeling that it was a mumei with a gimei added (because it's my understanding that the mei should look as crafted as the sword and not shoddy?), especially considering how famous Sadamune is...seemed suspect.

 

As for the fuchi, wouldn't that be quite a coincidence that that signature is famous too? (incidentally, attached are pics of the fuchi and the tsuka..the kashiri looks like it matches the fuchi with a design on it that looks like a pissed off dragon).

 

So perhaps I have a real blade that someone tried to dress up for a higher sale? Or do most of you think Stephen is correct about this being a Boy's Day sword? If it is...what lead you to believe it is from the 20's or 30's, Stephen?

 

Finally, if it is an older blade with a fake signature and new repro fittings...any idea as to the monetary value (if any?)?

 

Thanks again.

 

Michael

[MichaelW]

Hi,

One more question about menuki...those menuki from Antiques are absolutely the same as mine (except mine are painted and look "box new"). Were original menuki all one-of-a-kind hand made? Does that mean both mine and the ones on that auction site are modern repros? Or copies of an old design? or?

 

Michael

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Can't say the period of your Menuki, but with the help of my friends Matt and Emmanuel from http://forums.samurai-archives.com/viewtopic.php?p=8944#8944 I think to have found who is portraied :

 

Quote...

 

Kintaro, the Golden Boy possessed of superhuman strength, killed a giant spider with a tree trunk as a weapon.

 

Kintaro's mother was one of the mountain spirits known as Yama-uba. She was also described as a mortal devoted to her warrior-husband.

 

Kintaro was described as a beautiful child with golden skin. Brought up in a mountain retreat with only animal friends for companions. As a small boy he could uproot trees with only one hand. He wrestled with bears for excercise. He used his wisdom to adjudicate when his animal friends wrestled to test their strength.

 

...unquote.

 

The pictures in the link are the ones of Raiko-Yorimitsu, later the friend of Kintaro.

[MichaelW]

Carlo,

 

Grazia!

 

I e-mailed the guy on Bidders selling his menuki and he said it was "Showa" (hopefully it dates closer to 1926 than 1989). Also, maybe this kintaro/spider story would be a good theme for a menuki on a Boy's Day sword? (warming up to this theory).

 

Michael