they keep coming and coming..........X'mas presents

[Bungo]

this is mumei so we don't have to worry about the bloody mei, just the workmanship which i think is quite fine.

Note the full face of Shoki...........

 

I have a few menuki of similar construction and pattern of inlay ? Any idea as to school besides Kyo-Kinko, can one be a wee bit more specific ?

 

milt

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Nice...

[Bungo]

here's the other set with very similar style/workmanship, note the ' full face '.

 

Hamano school ?

 

milt

[Bungo]

Pete,

Coal ?

 

compare Kinko meikan ( new ed. )page 416, middle ones.

 

milt

[Pete Klein]

Milt -- this one is a close call. If it were mine I would probably get this one to shinsa just to find out.

[docliss]

Oh dear .... Am I alone in fearing that members are looking at mei in preference to assessing the quality of the work presented? However close this mei may be, I find it difficult to accept that the work illustrated is by the master.

 

Does any member 'out there' support me in this contention?

 

John L.

[Bungo]

John,

May be my level of art appreciation is low but I think the workmanship is quite fine with this bug.

In this particular case, I looked at the workmanship first before I rip out the good ole Kinko meikan.

 

 

Milt

[shan]

what worries me the most, is that I am sure that some artists wanted to Project a certain naiveté to there workmanship in some cases for effect, It seemed to be a desired result rather than a lack of skill.(you know...a bit like the saying that its hard for an actor to act like they cannot act...or a singer to try to sing like they cannot sing, there is always an element of the “unbelievable” in the performances that makes you say" no they can act" or "they can sing" and maybe that’s the case with some artists.

I think we judge the artists intentions based on our own expectations and to a degree experience of the artist or there "usual works" but in order to progress we must all stretch the boundaries of art and craftsmanship to reach a new level.

Has there never been a discovery of a particular artist that was so unlike what they would normally do that we felt it was “tampered with” or “not genuine”. Perhaps another expression was a “study piece” or “Prototype”?

If they all followed the same patterns and styles that tradition dictated, we would have items that were all more or less the same. Artistic license cannot play a great part in the shape of Tsuba or Fuchi kashira or even Kozuka but the artistic expression and experimentation can be imparted to the subject material and its method of translation.

Yes its fine to judge workmanship as being a high level item,but sometimes the artist was the desirable factor in the selection of the attachments.A fashionable artist versus an undesirable artists work.Like Picasso paintings,who actually likes or understands that work?? to me its wierd and naive in its execution.( but thats just my opinion,I prefer the works of John Constable)

.......Or maybe I am way off the mark.

Regards

Shan

[Brian]

Shan,

Pardon me for saying this, but that is a very long way of saying absolutely nothing.

The workmanship of a good artist will be clear no matter what subject matter they choose, or how they portray it.

They are not going to reduce their skill on a certain piece purely for artistic license. They might choose to depict a scene a totally different way, or use a different rendering of the tagane, but what will always come through is the care and skill in which they wield their tools. If I don't get it (as I don't on many artworks such as paintings) that is not a fault with the artwork, but my own appreciation level in most cases.

We look at the workmanship, and then see if the mei matches it. The other way round just gives the benefit of the doubt to the expert faker of signatures. And trust me...a signature is far easier to fake than quality workmanship.

 

Brian

[Bungo]

so , Brian, what is " workmanship " ? seems like it's more like " taste " in this case.

Some prefer skinny while others want them big ( more to love, they say )................

the ear-wig ( I think that's what that bug is ) is done nicely ( my opinion ), the mei is spot on with a valid sample from the Kinko meikan.

 

http://lh3.ggpht.com/ncsuinsects/R_A96B ... earwig.jpg

 

 

There are 4 Miboku listed, the first one is the real BIG name ( aka Shozui, Masayuki .... I think ) and this one is the other one, not " BIG, BIG " but above average.

If we can't trust the reference books with valid mei sample, then what's the point of buying and reading the book ?

 

milt

[Ford Hallam]

Am I alone in fearing that members are looking at mei in preference to assessing the quality of the work presented? However close this mei may be, I find it difficult to accept that the work illustrated is by the master.oop

s!

 

...sorry Dr John, I missed this earlier...I'm with you on this 100%

 

I think I understand what Shan is getting at but I fear that in this case it isn't a matter of expressive choice on the part of the maker. The workmanship simply isn't fantastic. There are artists who are noted for a more vernacular style ( Jingo work for instance ) but it is very important to understand the difference between mediocre technique and deliberate "roughness" or naivete.

 

Sorry Milt, skill is not a matter of taste, it is an objective quality

I think Brian has assessed the matter fairly accurately so he gets a beer

[docliss]

Dear Milt

 

I really must reply to your last post. ‘Workmanship’ and ‘taste’ are two quite distinct factors, and great art will always be great art, whatever one’s tastes. A preference for the katakiri-bori of Natsuo over that of Sōmin, or vice versa, in no way diminishes the workmanship of either. But to compare artistic preference with ‘big’ and ‘skinny’ merely trivializes the entire discussion.

 

Regards, John L.

[Bungo]

the menuki that comes with the tsuka......

 

milt

[Bungo]

more close-ups of the earwig........

and a new present for myself... a small Nara school Tanto tsuba ( faded silver nunome on the tree and rocks )., surface treatment is quite interesting, seems to have extensive iron bones.

 

milt

[Bungo]

one more pic of the " inside " of the kozuka hole..... appears to have quite a few bones, as they are inside the hole, don't think they are " hammer works " to simulate bones.

That brought to mind about the surface ' texture/features " of the tsuba surface .... are those bones ? or are they hammer works ?

 

 

milt