my x'mas present to myself

[Bungo]

bought this at a very low price ( if Shoshin )............

I think the mei compares quite well with the numerous sample in Kinko meikan (new ed. ), page 434-5

 

note..the mei is pronounced Soyo ( not Muneoki ), why ? don't ask me, that's just the way they preferred.

p.s. need independent evaluation since I am " prejudiced " regarding the authenticity of mei.

 

milt

[John A Stuart]

The mei looks really close doesn't it Milt. It matches some of the mei illustrated. There are slight differences among those shown, esp. on the two rightward strokes on the kao. My vote FWIW is shoshin. John

[Bungo]

John,

you were not the underbidder that cost me extra 100 beans, I hope ? :lol:

 

milt

[John A Stuart]

No, Milt. I won't be bidding on anything for a while since buying that Nosada. Times are just too tight. John

[docliss]

Dear Milt

 

Could we please have an image of the base of the fuchi? Apart from the mei, it is my personal opinion that the skill with which the fuchi has been constructed is equally important in its assessment, especially the insertion of the tenjō into the koshi of the fuchi.

 

With thanks, John.

[Bungo]

more pics as requested...........

 

milt

[DirkO]

lol I was bidding on that one !!! Count yourself lucky my boss came in

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

note..the mei is pronounced Soyo ( not Muneoki ), why ? don't ask me, that's just the way they preferred.

 

IMHO, because it is the kanji yo 與, and not the kanji oki 興

[Pete Klein]

Coal.

[remzy]

Quite a lovely set with beautiful carvings.

[docliss]

Oh dear, Milt ….

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but the pictures that you have posted of the fuchi appear to show the tenjō attached to the koshi at its lower edge instead being inset at its lower margin. This is completely alien to the normal method of manufacture, and suggests to me that the tenjō was added at a later date. Neither, in my opinion, is the standard of katakiri-bori up to that of the Yokoya master.

 

Sadly, if I am correct in this observation, while the mei might possibly be that of Sōyo I, I fear that the fuchi-gashira are not.

 

I think that I would like to hear your reaction to my thoughts - or perhaps I wouldn't!

 

Yours, John L.

[Bungo]

Coal.

 

 

sharp as a inverted cone !!

 

milt

[Bungo]

Oh dear, Milt ….

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but the pictures that you have posted of the fuchi appear to show the tenjō attached to the koshi at its lower edge instead being inset at its lower margin. This is completely alien to the normal method of manufacture, and suggests to me that the tenjō was added at a later date. Neither, in my opinion, is the standard of katakiri-bori up to that of the Yokoya master.

 

Sadly, if I am correct in this observation, while the mei might possibly be that of Sōyo I, I fear that the fuchi-gashira are not.

 

I think that I would like to hear your reaction to my thoughts - or perhaps I wouldn't!

 

Yours, John L.

 

 

 

probably won't find out till years later when my tour is over..wait, i can fly to NBTHK over the long week end.

 

 

 

milt

[Pete Klein]

Ho - Ho - HO!!! ROFL!!!

[Bungo]

John,

compare the f/k katakiri-bori with that illustrated in " lethal elegance " by Earle, page 109.

 

 

milt

[docliss]

Milt, I agree that there is a similarity between your pair of f-g and the tsuba by Soyo I, illustrated on p. 109 of Lethal Elegance, but the quality of the latter is infinitely superior. Apart from its sharpness, and the amazing use of reflected light, a simple comparison may be made between the rendering of the 'swirls' on the two pieces. Those on the tsuba all arise from a central point as perfect spirals, while those on the f-g are much more random in their depiction.

 

I rest my case, John.

[Ford Hallam]

I would have to wholeheartedly agree with John's assessment also...sorry Milt, perhaps Santa will be kinder

[Guido]

..., perhaps Santa will be kinder

Maybe if he slips a couple of bucks under Santa's glass of milk and cookies - it's usually "you get what you pay for"!

[docliss]

Dear Milt

 

On looking at your photographs of the fuchi again, it does appear is if the tenjo is unusually thick. Is it possible to see if this consists of two layers - in other words, has the tenjo with the mei been affixed over the original one or, as is technically more difficult, replaced it?

 

John.

[Kevin]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the pictures that you have posted of the fuchi appear to show the tenjō attached to the koshi at its lower edge instead being inset at its lower margin.

 

I wondered about the seam. However, taking into account the thickness of the baseplate, I suspect that the fuchi was constructed by insetting the plate rather than simply soldering it onto bottom of the collar, and that only a lip is sticking out because the match between the edges wasn't perfect. The metal of the collar may thereforework down to the baseplate cos that's how it has been worked.

 

In short, if the mei and the work are not compatible - and I'll leave that for others to decide, cos it is most definitely not my field - the original baseplate has been removed and a new one inserted and soldered into place, rather than being stuck over the original. There aren't any indications of a seam between two plates on the edge of the nakago-ana - it looks like one piece to me. The way the mei is carved also suggests that you'd need a fair thickness of metal, which argues against simply sticking an old plate over a new one.

 

Just my two penn'orth. :-)

 

Kevin

[Bungo]

haven't received them yet so can't say if fuchi is one piece construction.

I am clueless as to what this means............. but it looks like one piece construction instead of a " collar glued on a base plate " from the pics.

 

 

milt

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Milt, finally you stopped to mediate the price of your shares and decided to use your

money for something that will not be used as wallpaper/tapistry... :lol:

[Ford Hallam]

...from my professional perspective ( he he...that's me pulling rank ) and from what I can see I can't see anything that suggests any unusual construction processes in the fuchi. It looks perfectly normal to my eyes. In fact I think that in terms of actual construction and overall shape these are quite decent examples and ones I'd recommend as good examples to my "followers of the iron brush"

 

The mei is fairly obviously gimei and the workmanship confirms this, which is what Dr Lissenden clearly explained. Any further speculation enters the theological realm of " how many angels can dance on a pin head" :lol:

 

regards, Ford

[Bungo]

...from my professional perspective ( he he...that's me pulling rank ) and from what I can see I can't see anything that suggests any unusual construction processes in the fuchi. It looks perfectly normal to my eyes. In fact I think that in terms of actual construction and overall shape these are quite decent examples and ones I'd recommend as good examples to my "followers of the iron brush"

 

The mei is fairly obviously gimei and the workmanship confirms this, which is what Dr Lissenden clearly explained. Any further speculation enters the theological realm of " how many angels can dance on a pin head" :lol:

 

regards, Ford

 

lol, actually the mei looks very good compared to all the sample listed in the kinko meikan ( new ed. ),

It's the ' workmanship/construction " that raises doubt for the good doctor.

 

milt

[Ford Hallam]

 

 

 

these are from the "Toso Kinko Meishu Roku" circa Showa 45

 

 

handy converter here

[Ford Hallam]

...and while we're dealing with this maker I thought it might be helpful to add the following images as reference and some biographical information.

 

Yokoya Soyo (1615 - 1690 ), his personal name was Yokoya Jihei. Started off using the art names ; Moritsugu, Morinobu, Tomochika and ended up using Soyo.

 

Apparently his early training was in a studio that supported the output of the Goto school in Kyoto. Most likely in making up the basic forms of fuchi/kashira and kozuka. It's probable they supplied the nanako grounds also.

 

He graduated from this lesser workshop to study the pure Goto style under Goto Injo.

 

Yokoya Soyo went on to found the Yokoya school which is famed for it's dynamic work in kata-kiri bori. Soyo who is often referred to as "Grandfather Soyo" was the father of the more famous, and arguably influential, Somin. The school flourished until late in the Edo period and produced a great number of students, rather confusingly, called either Somin or Soyo.

 

The school is credited with introduction of the vertical format, just like a hanging scroll, for kozuka decoration. This is in contrast to the horizontal arrangement of the Goto school which echoes earlier screen painting composition. In this we can see the move from the aristocratic taste of the Goto clientèle towards the freer type of artistic expression favoured by the merchant class and the rise of the machibori artists.

 

This was exhibited at the British museum in 1990 and is regarded as genuine.

 

...as was this, more typical kata-kiri piece.

 

This charming fella was exhibited at Patrick Syz in 1991 and I was fortunate enough to get to examine it at very close quarters. It convinces me of it's authenticity. Most of the information I've quoted comes from the catalogue written by Graham Gemmell that accompanied the exhibition.

[docliss]

Thank you, Ford, for that superb posting. It is only when we see such work that we realise how jaded our palates may become by their everyday exposure to dross. John.

[Ford Hallam]

Thanks John, glad to add what I can to help raise everyone's game

 

I think we can do this sort of mini "expose" as and when similar big names come up for discussion. Eventually we could end up with a very valuable and complete database. The material could be archived under the names of the relevant artists. What do you reckon, Brian? We already have a few similar threads that could easily be overlooked unless more accurately labelled too.

 

Just thinking of ways to keep Brian busy...."The devil makes work for idle hands"

[Brian]

Ford,

Yep..I will definitely archive this thread and the others that are good references for certain artists. I think the faq should contain links to the threads on Soyo, Tomei, Omori etc.

Good mei examples and worth adding to as we create such links.

Hmm...I think I need a web designer's help here..lol. I am in over my head coding pages.

 

Brian