Jump to content

Wakizashi Certified MASASHIGE (Mumei)

kaliatur

By kaliatur
in Nihonto

 Share

Recommended Posts

kaliatur Apprentice

kaliatur

Posted
Posted

Hi people,

 

I need an expert opinion about an ebay offert.

I am a beginner collector ans I find this offert with famous smith and an amazing sayagaki certification (Dr Kanzan certified it as Muramasa)

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MURAMASA-NBTHK-Certified-MASASHIGE-16thC-Muromachi-Japan-Antique-Wakizashi/274621774981?hash=item3ff0bbbc85:g:ZiIAAOSwdhNf4XGg

 

Ok, the blade is not perfect and very beautiful BUT only hozon certificate ? why ? I expect rather a Tokubetsu Hozon ? These great blade is not normally more expensive?

 

Is this blade really worth it ?

 

Thanks for your knowledge

Mark S. Veteran

Mark S.

Posted
Posted

Can't tell how polished down the blade is and I was going to point out the 'flaw' as previously mentioned.  They obviously felt the need to highlight it.

Gakusee Veteran

Gakusee

Posted
Posted

Mumei Muromachi does not get to TH. 
It is currently  believed to be Masashige and not Muramasa. They are both very close but the student had bigger hamon and larger nie on average. 
Still, the price is low. 

  • Like 2
O koumori Community Regular

O koumori

Posted
Posted

I have one of these – mumei, attributed to Sengo Masashige. NTHK papered to 2nd generation (the one supposed to be Muramasa’s grandson). The jihada on mine looks a bit more pronounced than the one for sale, , and the hamon is different, but the sugata matches well.

 

image.png.720c2a2162b9c933e860947442dad25b.png

 

  

  

 

 

As already stated,  I’d be wary of the flaw…

Dan

image.png

image.png

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
ROKUJURO Grand Master

ROKUJURO

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Wolfmanreid said:

....... what would cause a flaw like that?  

Reid,

the picture is not very clear, at least to me. I have the impression that there is a crack in the MUNE area, so not a HAGIRE. Usually the construction of a blade is done in a way that you have a softer, more flexible back and a hard edge. If you protect yourself against a heavy blow of an opponent, you should be able to do so with the back of your blade. This should not cause damage to your blade with probably the exception of a KIRIKOMI.

When a crack like this appears, there have likely been inner tensions in the blade. These could result from an unbalanced composition of hard and more flexible components in the early forging stages, or from the hardening (and annealing = YAKIMODOSHI) process, but could as well be caused by an impact in use. In this case, I could imagine that a hacking blow with this blade meant too much stress for the (too hard) MUNE area. 
Basically, such a KIZU will have to be related with high probabilty to a fault in the production of the blade.  

  • Like 1
16k Grand Master

16k

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, kaliatur said:

 

crack.jpg

Thank you, but this picture is on NMB. I’ve checked the original eBay listing and that one doesn’t show for me.

 

As for the flaw, and although that usually look a bit different, could this be a Shinae?

  • Like 1
Gakusee Veteran

Gakusee

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, 16k said:

Thank you, but this picture is on NMB. I’ve checked the original eBay listing and that one doesn’t show for me.

 

As for the flow, and although that usually look a bit different, could this be a Shinae?


Same, JP, I could not see this shinae in the EBay listing. The blade might have been bent and then straightened or something at some point. 

  • Like 2
Wayben Veteran

Wayben

Posted
Posted

The picture is still there in the item description.  The seller is only allowed to put 12 pictures in the area at the top of the listing.  Some sellers add more photos in the description area.

  • Like 1
b.hennick Grand Master

b.hennick

Posted
Posted

When I tried to download the photo, it was part of a long strip of images. I  cut it out of the strip so that I could post it here. As for shinae I  have only seen a group of creases caused by bending the blade never a single crease if that is what it is. Everyone has different tolerances for flaws. This is one that I would not accept. Others will have different opinions.

  • Like 1
16k Grand Master

16k

Posted
Posted

That’s why I said it looked unusual for a shinae, Barry. I even wonder if this might not be some sort of blister.

Mark S. Veteran

Mark S.

Posted
Posted

So at first I thought it was a single crack that starts at the mune (notice the small v-shaped ding in the edge of mune) but as I look at it more, there is a second ding a little to the right and the whole area looks like it is defined by a u-shaped line connecting the two dings.  Really hard to tell from the photo.

b.hennick Grand Master

b.hennick

Posted
Posted

The blade appears to be on a blue towel. When enlarged the thing that you see appears to be part of the towel. Consider that if you  own the blade, it will always have discussions like this. 

kaliatur Apprentice

kaliatur

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

I asked the seller about this flaw and his answer is : "yes, it is fine crack. but not Hagire."

Ok I understand this is "the price to pay" for this kind a famous crafted sword, in this case the price is low due to flaw...

 

Another question : How to know if the writings  of sayagaki is really true? (kanji look good) . Is it possible to swap the sword in sayagaki ? a sword that matches the description for exemple?

 

And for information, how much do you estimate this kind of blade without the flaw?

 

@Dan how much do you paid for your blade?

 

Thanks :)

 

Edited by kaliatur
Mark S. Veteran

Mark S.

Posted
Posted

Don’t think blade was switched... NBTHK just gave a more conservative attribution, albeit along the same lines,  than Dr Kanzan.  The flaw and conservative NBTHK attribution may be why the previous owner did not try beyond the Hozon certificate.

  • Like 1
Mark S. Veteran

Mark S.

Posted
Posted

For those who know $$$ better than I... would be interested to see range of current price estimates based on presented blade:

 

If it was a...
Muramasa no flaw: $???

Muramasa with flaw: $???

Masashige no flaw: $???

Masashige.with flaw: $???

 

  • Thanks 1
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...