Dave R Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 On 9/23/2021 at 3:33 AM, Bruce Pennington said: Found by Thomas @Kiipu from a Gunboards Post. Note the absence of even the hole for a sarute! Also lacks visible means of attachment to the Tsuka. Very poor build quality, so I would say "not made by a Japanese". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stegel Posted November 29, 2021 Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 Any one notice that they all have the same shaped/style tsuba? both brass and steel as materials are present. Nick K posted a document with a similar looking tsuba in the type 95 thread. It was the announcement for the removal of the tassel mounting hole and also the introduction of the leather tassel 'without' the buckle, as used on all 'non- brass' tsuba type 95's. Essentially this was a contingency 'Rinji' announcement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted November 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 5 hours ago, Stegel said: Nick K posted a document with a similar looking tsuba in the type 95 thread. Any chance of finding a link to that, Ernie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stegel Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 13 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said: Any chance of finding a link to that, Ernie? You can find the link here Now it is only a drawing, and no real details are available except that the slot for the tassel mount is omitted. None have ever been seen on type 95's, in fact the replacement was the round 'steel' tsuba from Pattern 3 onwards. The actual link between this announcement and the tsubas on this thread is fairly weak, but these here are thinner, have the same shape and no slots for mounting tassels. I just thought it was worth noting and keeping in mind when looking at some of these, and wanted to share the idea around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted November 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Stegel said: these here are thinner, have the same shape and no slots for mounting tassels. Wow, Erns, I see what you mean! Sort of supports the posted tsuba as legit Japanese. Even if a faked copy, that still means the COPIED a legit Japanese design. Here's the posted chart from Nick Komiya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2021 Another one currently at a Sofe Auction: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 I Have a couple that I bought out of the woodwork years ago that are like the one that started the thread and believe them to be legitimate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted January 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, brannow said: I Have a couple that I bought out of the woodwork years ago that are like the one that started the thread and believe them to be legitimate. If you have the time, I'd love to see some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 I think I have posted them in the past. If not I might have to retake pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiipu Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) On 12/14/2021 at 7:59 PM, Bruce Pennington said: Another one currently at a Sofe Auction: This seems to be a variant of the plain brass Chinese version; however, the menuki is of a different style than the others that are pictured on the various forums. The small differences that appear in these Chinese versions could indicate production from more than one location? The survival rate seems high and this would seem to indicate a decent amount of them were manufactured during the war. Several have direct connections to veterans that brought them back. Another unusual sword Quote This is one of the poorly made swords likely made as replacements. I have owned several of these and all have had the identical silver tsuba and poorly shaped tangs. All of the ones that I veteran purchased were found in China. I have always thought that these were made in theatre and were to serve a purpose until a proper replacement could be had. None of the ones I have ever handled have any temper in the blade. This is a model sword rarely encountered. Most collectors have looked at them as being fakes but in my opinion, they are just poorly made swords. ww2 sword?, Post #18 Edited January 8, 2022 by Kiipu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiipu Posted January 10, 2022 Report Share Posted January 10, 2022 And another one that I ran into by accident over at SFI, it appears to be the plain version that I associate with Chinese use. Japanese samurai sword ??? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiipu Posted November 4, 2022 Report Share Posted November 4, 2022 On 10/22/2021 at 10:52 PM, Bruce Pennington said: There is an interesting gunto posted ON THIS RUSSIAN SITE, that I think is original. Dated Feb 1945, it has poor quality Type 98 tsuka/tsuba, but really poor quality RS saya, black painted. I have been working on this one for awhile and today I finally closed the books on it. The maker is Yoshitada 義忠 and I think he hails from Gifu Prefecture. I base this on one that has a small Seki 関 stamp that is for sale on eBay. WWII Japanese Army officer's samurai sword shin gunto Untouched Mint WW2 @mecox 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted November 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 Found one of the 'standard' late-war kabutogane on this frankenstein: Could be a pieced-together very late war gunto, or just a Bubba-job post war. It's missing a tsuba, but he seppa has what's left of a leather retention strap: so it would imply the wooden saya came with the sword. Making it worse, though, is the blade is a Showa-stamped Yoshimitsu. The Showa stamp died off by 1942, so if this was a late-war monster, the blade would have had a re-fit at the end of the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted November 30, 2022 Report Share Posted November 30, 2022 Bruce: Could this be a variation of a late war emergency stamp? https://www.ebay.com/itm/295367094149?hash=item44c5402f85%3Ag%3AFYQAAOSwGvZjgUs0&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoE2vtf1G0e6%2BYCRzQdr5e1FQNMgrEltgGeArcOmW7ZbSnRt2aUALk6H6UmPegZB3KZaTm9VpsjRGd%2BJcf9Bp8DOQiviWJgLA%2BQsAEM5XixxkYgVQ0IXqhjD%2FMWgB%2FzNRiGrMzBRb4VmyPhekf5%2BHOvMmhmIHPntWMq4xGMKSBBBjYDx6lZyE7fjUZxHj0%2FF%2BtKq6H3IjPf5QJygz0VMdhI4%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8iMk-iYYQ&LH_ItemCondition=4|10 John C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANGBANGSAN Posted November 30, 2022 Report Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 hours ago, John C said: Bruce: Could this be a variation of a late war emergency stamp? https://www.ebay.com/itm/295367094149?hash=item44c5402f85%3Ag%3AFYQAAOSwGvZjgUs0&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoE2vtf1G0e6%2BYCRzQdr5e1FQNMgrEltgGeArcOmW7ZbSnRt2aUALk6H6UmPegZB3KZaTm9VpsjRGd%2BJcf9Bp8DOQiviWJgLA%2BQsAEM5XixxkYgVQ0IXqhjD%2FMWgB%2FzNRiGrMzBRb4VmyPhekf5%2BHOvMmhmIHPntWMq4xGMKSBBBjYDx6lZyE7fjUZxHj0%2FF%2BtKq6H3IjPf5QJygz0VMdhI4%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8iMk-iYYQ&LH_ItemCondition=4|10 John C. upside down 順 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted November 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2022 10 hours ago, John C said: variation of a late war emergency stamp? I see the vague similarity: The pictures aren't great on that sword, but I'd bet it's an occupied territory sword. 10 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said: upside down 順 Trystan, any idea of meaning or significance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANGBANGSAN Posted November 30, 2022 Report Share Posted November 30, 2022 24 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said: upside down 順 Trystan, any idea of meaning or significance? Success/Well/Smooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted November 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2022 We are starting to see a small collection of stamps on these collaborator swords. No way to know if they are each from a smith, or a shop/forge. In the old days, I would have said they are simply random Chinese kanji to imitate Japanese markings. But I think the forge idea is shaping up to be the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave R Posted December 2, 2022 Report Share Posted December 2, 2022 On 11/7/2022 at 2:27 PM, Bruce Pennington said: Found one of the 'standard' late-war kabutogane on this frankenstein: Could be a pieced-together very late war gunto, or just a Bubba-job post war. It's missing a tsuba, but he seppa has what's left of a leather retention strap: so it would imply the wooden saya came with the sword. Making it worse, though, is the blade is a Showa-stamped Yoshimitsu. The Showa stamp died off by 1942, so if this was a late-war monster, the blade would have had a re-fit at the end of the war. Just to say that from the Japanese perspective 1942 is "very late war" to quote... "The beginning of the war is conventionally dated to the Marco Polo Bridge Incident on 7 July 1937, when a dispute between Japanese and Chinese troops in Peking escalated into a full-scale invasion. Some Chinese historians believe that the Japanese invasion of Manchuria on 18 September 1931 marks the start of the war. This full-scale war between the Chinese and the Empire of Japan is often regarded as the beginning of World War II in Asia." .....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War It was the wartime shortages of needed resources that drove Japan to war with the US and UK in 1941, primarily oil, but also steel and other materials. Nicely summed up by this US propaganda leaflet dropped on Japan. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted December 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Dave R said: from the Japanese perspective 1942 is "very late war" Yes. When you read their stories/book of WWII, it was an 8 year war for them! It's interesting that several changes started occurring in '42/'43 like manufacturing regulations, SMR changed their mei, and even inspector stamping procedures. I think the term is used mostly, in Sword-World, though to denote the dramatic changes we see in swords of the final year of the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANGBANGSAN Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 @Bruce Pennington Here is an interesting one,長江興亜刀 Yangtze River Koa sword,青柳五郎作 Gorou Aoyagi Saku. I think it's could be a Japanese swordsmith or IJA Gunto repair team member who made this sword at the location near the Yangtze River in China during ww2. The fitting is very similar to an territory/island swords I've seen before. This is the territory/island sword that I mentioned. Nothing on both sides of the tang. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted December 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 12 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said: 長江興亜刀 Yangtze River Koa sword, That's quite a fascinating mei, Trystan! Any idea what it is trying to say? Was it part of a group taking a Yangtze river area for the "United Asia" effort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted December 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 Here's one with the standard late-war kabutonage. Braxtons Auction- Hibid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave R Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 19 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said: Here's one with the standard late-war kabutonage. Braxtons Auction- Hibid I think that is one of the Chinese made swords. This is one of my late war examples from Japan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave R Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 ... Here is another... which looks perfectly standard, til you use a magnet and find all the metal is stamped iron or steel and plated to look regulation.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted December 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Dave R said: Chinese made I think you're right. Purple'ish same', poor wrap, and long thin sarute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridges Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 @Bruce Penningtonnice read, I would get this easily confused with a fake due to the poor quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted December 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2022 5 hours ago, Bridges said: I would get this easily confused with a fake due to the poor quality And that has been what's plagued this 'genre' of sword for so long. The quality of the Chinese territory and 'island made' swords was so poor compared to mainland Japan, that they are near impossible to distinguish from the modern fakes. But we have been discovering documents (thanks to Kiipu and Bangbangsan) showing swords were being made 'over there' and we're building some experience in spotting them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajo Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 Found that in the Nihonto Collector Group in Facebook. I told the owner to ask here in the board. Could that be a island sword? What you think? The sword is rough made with improvised cast fittings. He said it is a family heirloom from his uncle who had it from a Japanese officer in guinea. It's obvious not Japanese made but it looks not like the typical chinese made repros. The ito looks like made from stripes of cloth, a blue jacket or trousers. The same is iguana or something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 I saw the FB post. The fittings are crudely cast, with not much effort made to replicate originals. I vote a roughly made island sword, maybe made in the occupied territories. It's not a modern fake, but maybe even made just after the war for sale to soldiers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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