Black painted Type 32

[dwmc]

Over the years I couldn't help but notice many Type 32 Gunto's, both Ko and Otsu's have been painted black.

 

I get the sense that these black painted Type 32's were painted either WWll or before and not post war.

 

Anyone happen to know the reason behind the black paint?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave M.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Japanese-M1899-TYPE-32-OTSU-TROOPERS-SWORD-SCABBARD-MATCHING-NUMBERS/224236094829?hash=item343583456d:g:djgAAOSwiVRfsZnP

[BANGBANGSAN]

I think I saw it somewhere that says the black painted type 32 were factory refurbished。

[dwmc]

Thanks Trystan, interesting possibility.

 

Dave M.

[Bruce Pennington]

That one definitely looks period legit.  I don't really follow the 32s and earlier, so I don't have a feel for them.  We have discussed black painted 95s quite a bit.

 

Here's a long one: Type 95 Black Saya

 

I think the paint is WWII period on most of these, but like Shamsy says, it's hard to say if it is original or a repaint.

[dwmc]

Bruce,

 

I noticed the black painted Type 32's were mentioned a couple of times in the Type 95 Black Saya thread. Interesting opinions on the 95 black saya's.

 

The guy I bought my 32 from seemed to think someone post WWll had possibly painted it. At the time, I didn't give the black paint much thought due to the fact the sword was in overall good condition with matching numbers.

 

Eventually, I began to notice a few 32's on ebay with black paint also. Oddly, many if not all, were painted entirely black, saya, guard, backstrap, handle, wood and all.

I couldn't help but think how odd, painted entirely black. I feel relatively confident that this is at least paint wwll and very possibly before.

Trystan thought he read they were painted during factory refurbish which makes sense. I'm also wondering however, if it may have  been a cavalry or regimental designation?

 

Appreciate the input,

 

Dave M.

 

 

[Shamsy]

My opinion on black 95 saya being either repainted from an original colour (brown or green) or post war re-painted remains firm, in light of the evidence (and lack of counter evidence). I am remiss to say there have been a few more examples I have not added to the 95 thread. 

 

The 32, I would think, are the same. The original swords were clearly 'in the white' and later, some saya were blued or painted. Dawson had a very small sample and also reached that conclusion. That is consistent with refurbishment or field painting. I've never really seen post war black paint on 32s. Probably because books don't list them as 'rare'. I blame the 'rare' reference for all the post war repainted Type 95s. It is something easy to do, that anyone can do and suddenly they have a 'rare' sword to sell for more money.

 

Remember, the key to my theory is that where it is not post war, the black is period, but not original to the saya. Your 32 shows clear signs of patina and age and falls into this category, as opposed to post war fiddling.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Dave

Many of those refurbished Type 32 also change the spacer from leather to brass one.

 

[dwmc]

Those are both very nice looking 32's Trystan, mine still has the leather spacer. The black painted one appears almost pristine, was it refurbished WWll or earlier?

 

Definitely agree with your theory Steve.  A period paint, not original to sword, and not post war! Trystan's black sword does look professionally refurbished.

 

My 32, and most others I've noticed don't appear quite as nicely painted, almost as though it was done in the field and with the typical black type paint seen on your 95 saya's also. I guess the real question I have is...why?  A particular geographic area, military unit, specific regulation?  Possibly an answer lost to time.

 

Again, appreciate your input,

 

Dave M.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Dave

These two Type 32 do look nice but they are not mine. I use to have one refurbished 32甲 still has the leather spacer but no finger ring loop.Here you go.

 

[Shamsy]

I would guess, Dave, simply a matter of exposed metal rusting and painted metal being protected. Because there is often original paint underneath the 95s and the application quite crude, my suspicion is that it is a crude 'field fix'. Type 32 were never painted, so they should be a neater application of the black paint.

 

Some of my 32, all with leather seppa. Top to bottom:

Black paint

Light metalic blue

Deeper.... blue?

In the white

 

These are great swords too. Under rated to collect but very well made and relatively cheap. The stories some of these swords could tell.

 

As we were discussing arsenal refurbishment, I've included a couple of photos of number 3. The saya has undergone re-matching twice before. Just an interesting thing to see.

 

[dwmc]

Excellent group of Type 32's Steve. I thank both you and Trystan for both taking the time to share photo's as well as black paint theories!

 

I would go so far as to say your both correct as for painted during refurbishing, and also a field fix for metal protection.

 

Again, much thanks,

 

Dave M.

[Bruce Pennington]

13 hours ago, Shamsy said:

Light metalic blue

Deeper.... blue?

Steve,

After seeing your "blued" sayas, it made me think about one of my 95s.  It's the one with the mottled green paint that I assumed was a bad Bubba post-war job.  I had stripped the greens and what remained was a darkened "blue" finish to the steel.  After seeing your 32s with that same finish, I'm starting to think this was a regular finish done, for some reason, on some saya.  Apparently it wasn't done to all saya, so why just to some?  Maybe it was needed for a particular type of top-coat paint that in use for the moment?  (I still regret stripping that green paint!)

 

Dave, sorry for taking your thread off-topic!

[dwmc]

No problem Bruce, fire away, all interesting information!!

 

Dave M.

[Shamsy]

Hard to say Bruce. The darkening and texturing of metal occurs normally and none of my 95 have very shiny metal under the paint. I'm not sure that photographs would be a sufficient comparison between our two swords. My 32 certainly seems to have some kind of finish applied. I'm not very familiar with the subject though. It could be any number of finishes,  or (though highly unlikely as it is very uniform and neat) it may be age patina.

 

It would likely be a question best put to Nick. He has researched that area more than anyone else I know so seems likely to have the best info.

[Shamsy]

Bruce. I asked Neil about the blueing on sword 3. He thinks an oxidizing blueing.

[Bruce Pennington]

Linking 2 similar 32s over at Gunboards:

 

Type 32 Japanese Sword Question

 

Type 32 Sword and Type 30 Bayonet - Paint?

[lonely panet]

there are 3 finishes with typr 32s,  white metal,  blued oxide and black paint