That darn raffle

[Brian]

As many of you already know, the NMB is entirely free resource aimed at improving knowledge and educating people.

In this respect, I think we have quite a unique resource here, with everything from free and trustworthy translations to good opinions on mei verification and school identification and some fun inbetween.

I have always resisted the common move of adding advertising to the website to cover costs, or charging for private ads. I feel that would not suit the forum or the free spirit we instill here. Instead, what I have done is, once a year, run a raffle to raise funds to maintain the forum and cover the considerable expenses.

I am sure you all know how much fun this can be, and with prizes generously donated by the members, it has always been a bit of fun that also covers all the expenses and allows entrants a chance to win something.

 

That brings me to the bad news this year. In spite of the fact that we have had some really great prizes offered by NMB members and I was all geared up to running the raffle this year, there is a problem. Paypal has always been pretty much the only way of accepting the donations due to the hassles and complexities of accepting money here in SA. Anything else simply isn't workable. However in their latest policy updates, Paypal has banned any form of gambling including raffles and anything that offers prizes.

They are very strict about this, and I have confirmed in writing with them that any form of the raffle will not be allowed in any form. Donations are fine, but when prizes are involved it is a no-go.

I have considered every possibility, and simply can't find a way around this. Bear in mind that any form of deception designed to circumnavigate this rule would probably be seen by outside readers who might report it with the obvious results.

 

This puts me in a difficult situation. I could scrap the raffle and find a way to cover the fees myself, sell some items to raise funds, make an appeal for small donations or take some time to see if we can find another method of doing this. However the end of the year is when fees are due and I don't have a lot of time to prepare.

The fees for hosting, domain name etc are not huge and aren't a critical problem, but it is good to be able to increase webspace and bandwidth and have some in reserve for emergency maintenance. The raffle has always more than covered everything and with the advantage of being fun for everyone.

 

I am extremely hesitant to simply ask for small donations towards the running of the forum, but if I cannot come up with another method, I may have to go that route. In that case, I would ask anyone who feels that they get something positive out of the forum to offer a small amount (anything at all, from $5 up) completely voluntarily. This has never been compulsory and there is no bad stigma attached at all if someone cannot do it. I have always been amazed at the generosity of the members here, and their understanding. What I would then possibly do at a later stage (early in 2009) as a simple thanks is to perhaps see what donations are offered at that stage by members (and myself of course, as some funds raised have always gone back into the raffle) and do a completely free "lucky draw" with no entry fee and give away some prizes.

That is just one thought at this stage though, and entry would perhaps be open to everyone who participates and not dependent on any donations. Donations are fine with Paypal as long as they are not linked to a raffle at the same time with prizes.

 

So I am posting this to ask for your understanding and suggestions. I am not sure which way to go at this point, and have held off posting this as long as possible. However I would like any thoughts or suggestions from the members, as you always have a say in how things are done. Sometimes I am criticized for not being strict enough or not taking a stand, however we do have a unique forum and a unique way of doing things. So what sayeth you all, and would small voluntary donations go against the grain? Remember that absolutely no-one is expected to volunteer or participate, and no-one is thought any less of if they cannot.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Bungo]

" and some fun inbetween "

 

that is debatable

 

anyway, why not have all the donated items be put on an auction with proceeds go directly towards the maintainance of the web site ?

All sealed bids till the ending time. Bids to be submitted via PM to one e-mail address so there's an e-mail trail when " dispute " comes up regarding who holds the high bid at what date/time.

 

milt

[Brian]

Milt,

You get away with more "fun" than anyone else :lol:

I have considered that, and it is an option. However the fact that most items are still with the donators, and the fact that I am not sure how they would feel about their items being sold instead of donated would go down with them. In that case, we may as well list the items on eBay. Either way, the highest bidders would win, which isn't a lot of fun for those that can't bid or bid low. Takes the fun away from those hoping for something they don't have to buy. Complicated, but an option. Thanks for the comments.

 

Brian

[Bungo]

" the fact that most items are still with the donators, and the fact that I am not sure how they would feel about their items being sold instead of donated would go down with them "

 

1. why can't the donors send pics , info of item to one designated despot /organiser of auction ?

2. once item is donated, the ownership transferred to the Message Board, it's like you give a dollar to the homeless person, it's none of your freakin' business how the " new owner of the dollar " uses that dollar, yes ? ( at this point I have another excellent political joke/observation but it won't pass censor )

3. Donations are made freely and should have no string attached.......... if they demand " pre-condition ", personally i would tell them to go take a hike.

 

 

Milt

[Bungo]

here's another way to squeeze $ for good cause........

 

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4236&p=32710#p32710

 

 

milt

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Hi Brian.

 

Paypal forbid anything only *directly* related to gamble or also *indirectly* ?

 

Thanks.

 

EDIT :

 

don't mind, skipped this paragraph :

 

and I have confirmed in writing with them that any form of the raffle will not be allowed in any form.

[Brian]

Milt,

Thanks for that (and a good way to slip in your ad there too hey? :lol: )

I am sure most members wouldn't have a problem with that, and none I am sure would object. It is me that has a slight moral issue with simply selling donated items and not giving them away in a draw. Doing that with a few is possibel though, maybe splitting the proceeds with the donators so that they benefit too.

 

Carlo, that is a difficult one to answer, and clarifying it with PP is hard without asking them for ways around it

I think that directly is a problem. Hence the idea of possibly taking donations without any expectation of a prize draw, and then later maybe offering some items for free in an unrelated gift giving that would not be decided upon yet. All very legal mumbo jumbo. PP does this because online raffles are illegal in some countries/states and they are always worried about being sued. Once again, everyone suffers due to the laws of a few.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Bungo]

Brian,

you worry too much, you are acting like an old woman ( and single at that )........

my apology to members of the fairer sex/gender, believe me I am being nice to Brian, I could have called him an old man ( and single at that ).

 

milt

[Jean]

Whatever the way, Brian, just PM me for donation (of course, it is independant of the raffle objects I was offering)

[Stephen]

Raffle we don't need no stink'n raffle, post the pp address while I'm slightly flushed, if my small donation helps the board and you want to reward me with a small denotation gift, (it happens everywhere), then its not my business how you decide to draw what I win...err...receive from you.

[b.hennick]

Hi Brian:

I propose two separate and distinct events.

1. Any member who wants to donates $10 to support the board. This is a no strings attached donation.

2. You draw names of members from a hat or whatever and give to those people a prize. You first must ask the person whose name was drawn a skill testing question. Did you donate to the messageboard? If the answer is yes then do send then something. If the answer is no, then follow up by asking how the board might be improved.

One event has nothing to do with the other.

Paypal will be happy, members will be happy. You can then follow this with a trading period of three days where people can exchange prizes if they so wish. Finally prizes can be sent out.

[Bungo]

Barry,

I ain't gonna take no freakin' test !!

 

geez....... it hurts the brain, man.

 

In the military, there's such a rule call " KISS " ( even though they preach but don't practice )

 

1. all moderators have to make MANDATORY monetary donation........ since they get to weld thier power over the masses ( that's the rest of us )

2. members can make donations ( $ or goods ) at their free will with no string attached as long as it's not for beer party for the moderators .

3. run a simple auction on donated goods from members with minimal bids ( gotta cover those shipping charges )

4. no test of any sort.

 

milt

 

 

milt

[remzy]

Whatever you decide to do Brian, ill help.

[Strider]

Brian, I would be more than happy to send a voluntary fee for board upkeep. While I cannot do any great amount, I would like to contribute $20.00 towards the cause. How do I get this to you? Happy holidays and warmest regards to all Scott Enloe

[hybridfiat]

I agree we should be able to donate to the board.

This is an invaluable resource for those of us who cannot afford the library of books needed to study nihonto and the saving there alone would be huge. Then there is the advice that enables us novices to make educated decisions about purchases, again more $s saved.

This is all without the consideration of the pleasure derived from reading about others opinions and experiences and the camraderie of belonging.

This all adds up to money well spent if donations are made.

So how do I donate?

[Chriso]

Don't forget me. put me down for a donation.

 

You guys and the NMB have all put me on a steep learning curve since I joined. Just send the link.

 

Merry Christmas to all, and remain safe

 

Chris Osborn

[Mike]

Hi, Whatever the method will be, I am willing to donate money as well as those 2 catalogues I had offered including shipping anywhere. Personally I think that first we have to finish the monetary donation, and then lets say a month later, to conduct some kind raffle. Mike

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

I would confirm the 2 Stibbert's catalogues as well as shipping everywhere.

[DirkO]

Hi Brian:

I propose two separate and distinct events.

1. Any member who wants to donates $10 to support the board. This is a no strings attached donation.

2. You draw names of members from a hat or whatever and give to those people a prize. You first must ask the person whose name was drawn a skill testing question. Did you donate to the messageboard? If the answer is yes then do send then something. If the answer is no, then follow up by asking how the board might be improved.

One event has nothing to do with the other.

Paypal will be happy, members will be happy. You can then follow this with a trading period of three days where people can exchange prizes if they so wish. Finally prizes can be sent out.

 

First I thought this to be overcomplicated, but I must say, not a bad idea. You can create a new member group containing the people who paid, then open up a post for the raffle itself in a dedicated section, then after that a few price-exchange posts. This way, no outsider will be the wiser - that is, if you set your forum rights correctly

[Guido]

4. no test of any sort.

Not a test, but a question you should answer yourself (not neccessarily in public): "Do my fingers sometimes type faster than my brain works?" And the bonus question: "Is it a wise choice to call the host of this forum an *old woman*, and always making a point of being "censored", considering the warnings I already got?" If you answer the first with "yes", and the second with "no", your membership here might hang on at the skin of your teeth for a little longer. (Please note that I'm not adding a smiley.)

[Stephen]

and the beat goes on....and on and on and on.

 

Have it set up like many levels of membership.

 

standard member....too cheap to donate

 

other grades you can use your imagination, using Japanese names or

just to make my point metals

 

brass ....10-20$ books ect

silver.....25-50$ members ships to JSSUS ect

Gold.....50-100$ prints tsuba ect ..

 

Life member....100+ no more need to donate...

 

just a thought, but may be making it too complicated, back in the day we just sent the riches to the Rich's and Brian

[Brian]

Thanks for the comments, suggestions and advice all.

I really don't want to make this a big issue or complicated. I also don't want to make people feel like they have to contribute. The board will always (well...as far as i can see into the future) remain non-profit and semi formal. Anyone who feels they would like to assist is really appreciated. I owe this forum to you guys and the generous ones who donate prizes. Times are tough for everyone..we all know that. Those who can't..well there will be next year which will hopefully be better.

This is what I have decided to do:

For those that do wish to make a small donation, Paypal is the only option at the moment. You can log in and send the donation (please mark it simply donation or NMB donation or similar) to the email address goth(at)icon.co.za with the @ sign of course.

Please don't use the NMB email address for this. Those who know Paypal should know how to do this. Anything is appreciated from $10 up.

It would be good if you could include a note with the payment letting me know what your username is. Let me know if you would prefer me not to include your name in a public thanks that I will post at the end of January.

 

What I will then do sometime shortly after January, is to organise with people who would like to donate prizes, and run a free lucky draw. This is a separate issue and there will be no entry fee. I am not posting prize details now, as I don't want to link the 2 events. Donations are not a requirement for entry to the draw, although I may allocate additional entries to those who support the forum financially or with posting assistance

 

So how does that sound? Huge thanks go out to everyone who is willing to assist. I will try and make the lucky draw as fun and rewarding as possible, but that is for a future thread.

 

Regards,

Brian

 

Paypal email address for any donations is to

goth@icon.co.za

 

Edit to add: You don't have to be a NMB member to donate either. If you are a dedicated lurker and wish to assist, just send your name with the donation and a note to this effect, and I'll keep the details for future reference

[Rich T]

I am not sure if these are any good ????? but they may be worth a look. I just googled 'Alternatives to Paypal'

 

http://www.auctioncheckout.com/

 

http://www.swreg.org/

 

Donations are the easiest way to go when in doubt. I do not think some members really appreciate the amount of traffic these boards generate and the huge amount of bandwidth they use. It was case when I was running NMB and I think now it is even bigger than that. And with the SA dollar swilling like a drunk in the bar troth, I think poor old Brian could do with some help.

 

It is a huge undertaking running one of these forums, that not only uses up Brian's personal money, but also a LOT of his personal time. But I am sure I do not need to tell all you people that :-)

 

Good work mate.

 

Rich

[remzy]

As they say over here.. "le cheque est dans la malle"

[Brian]

Thanks for the kind words Rich. Yes, I have noted some of the upcoming alternatives to Paypal and really hope there is some good competition for them in the works. At the moment paypal has the monopoly and their being owned by eBay is not healthy at all. Too much dictating how things have to be done. Can you imaging your credit card company telling you what you can and can't spend your money on??

The problem currently is getting people to sign up for these other options. It is hard enough getting people to use Paypal without trying to convince them to give their banking details to someone new

Thanks to those 6 that have made donations so far, your support is very much appreciated.

 

Brian

[leo]

Dear Nihonto board members!

May I introduce myself: My name is Martin and I have been watching and enjoying the discussions on this board for quite a while. I hace been collecting and dealing swords and related items for over 30 years. Maybe some of you know my homepage: http://www.juwelier-strebel.de/Asien/Japan/Japan.htm

 

Back to the topic:

Dear Brian, I consider this board a valuable resource of information for all of us. This platform of international communication should not fail becaus of economical reasons. I would gladly make a donation, if you tell me the best way to do the transfer (actually anything except Paypal). Maybe you should simply open an account for donation purposes, publish it here and whoever wants to donate a few bucks can do so anytime.

 

Martin

[Brian]

Martin,

Good to hear from you and thanks for the kind words. I can think of a few ways for the forum to fail, but economic reasons won't be one of them. The members here always make sure of that, and I will never let that be a reason anyways.

Opening an account for this is a problem because of South Africa's tough banking laws and huge fees. Cash in an envelope at Xmas time is also not a good idea (Post office sees this time as their cash bonus period )

Let me see what I can organise..maybe even a member who is closer who is prepared to accept money order/cheque and forward paypal once it clears and minus fees?

 

Regards,

Brian

[Stephen]

Martin

 

if you want to do bank wire to me drop me a line then i can forward ..no fee from me because of the board donation,but also no cost to me please.

[DirkO]

Or for our European friends it would be cheaper to send it to another EU country (which is free)

If someone has trouble/objections using PayPal, then they can drop me a line. I can gather the money and use my PayPal to forward the integral amount to Brian.

[Jean]

Same for me