Custom Kyu Tanto?

[Bruce Pennington]

Found at this Warrelics Thread.

 

I'm stumped by the 32-ray emblem and the backstrap pattern.  I can't find anything like it in Fuller or Dawson.  Anyone recognize them?

[IJASWORDS]

Dawson page 301, Tokyo Police Lieutenant.

[Shamsy]

Lovely little sword and it looks to me as though it is all original to the piece. I really like these tantos mounted as swords. Rare as hens teeth.

[Jareth]

Symbol certainly looks police to me. For a child or a very small cop

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

  On 12/1/2020 at 12:32 AM, Jareth said:

Symbol certainly looks police to me. For a child or a very small cop

 

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like these child officers and soldiers?😝

 

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 11/30/2020 at 7:41 PM, IJASWORDS said:

Dawson page 301, Tokyo Police Lieutenant.

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Neil,

I saw that one too, but these are pretty specific.  Slight variations in the pattern signify different things.  Dawson's has 3 levels of the rays - outer, middle, inner - whereas this tanto only has 2 levels. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Interesting.  Same ray-pattern just showed up on this one:

 

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/sword-identification-781190/

[Dave R]

My Komiya has just weighed  in on that subject. Apparently it's the early version of army sunburst.

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 12/8/2020 at 11:46 AM, Dave R said:

My Komiya

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Must be nice to have your own “Komiya”. Ha!

 

so do you think this is purely army, or is it police with an army emblem on the backstrap?

[lonely panet]

a odd item, it has both army and police symbols, it has both type 8 and tpe 19 design traits. 

perosnally i dislike the design on the guard, looks odd but it does share work styles of a sword

s guard on page 372 on dawsons " titled unidentifed custom swords of the  goverment and civil officals " the sukura look very simular in design and carving

 

so is it police ? is it army imo "police"   as army dirks are not really proven imho. on the other hand police, and other gov sections all have documneted kyu style dirks 

 

secondly theres no mekugi? so check the pomel end cap to see if its a threaded version ?

 

more photos please

[Bruce Pennington]

[lonely panet]

not that one bruce, the origianl kyu

[Bruce Pennington]

that's the rest of them.

[Dave R]

Two part metal mekugi through the backstrap.....

[Dave R]

  On 12/8/2020 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Must be nice to have your own “Komiya”. Ha!

 

so do you think this is purely army, or is it police with an army emblem on the backstrap?

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 "Must be nice to have your own “Komiya”. Ha!"     Typo, I blame the new kitten sitting on my arm 

[lonely panet]

to flush with the backstrap, for that.

 

the one you posted looks like it went throught the same. the ones that are decorated with sukura tend to be beafer so they dont bend and deform

[Dave R]

The one I posted was just to show the type..... Below is the back-strap I was writing about.

 

 

 

[Shamsy]

Thanks Dave for passing on the information about the emblem. An early version of the army sunburnt. A custom kyu-gunto for an army officer then, one who decided to mount a tanto blade (is it actually a tanto or is it a dirk?). I don't recall seeing another kyu with a tanto blade before (again, unless it's a dirk), so very rare. An absolutely lovely and unique item. I've postulated before that my own kai-gunto with the o-tanto blade must have been an important family heirloom.  Purely speculative of course, but perhaps the same thing here? Would love to see that nakago and what it can tell us about the blade history and perhaps clarify what it should be rightly classified as.

[lonely panet]

Edit, 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's Nick's take on the sunburst: "

The rising sun you show in the photo is basically in the army configuration, while the illustration you put beside it is the police type with a much smaller orb. Police rising suns consistently had a tiny orb in the center as shown below.

Regarding the staggering of the ray lengths, the army's version did change size and designs several times after 1880, so a 2 length version might be one such later version. However, 3 ray lengths had been the standard norm since the institution of the Order of the Rising Sun, so a 2 length variant would be highly irregular."

[lonely panet]

whos nick?

[Dave R]

  On 12/10/2020 at 8:18 PM, Hamish said:

whos nick?

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 Nick Komiya, a native Japanese speaker and researcher of the original late 19th and early 20th century documentation in Imperial Japanese archives....

 

  You can find him here.. Japanese Militaria

 

[lonely panet]

thanks for the link, does he do PDFs or books or just webpages

 

[Brian]

AFAIK, he only comments on certain websites. But the guy is a treasure. Well connected, very knowledgeable and always helping. He's a huge help to those studying military swords.
Wish he were here.

[Bruce Pennington]

Here is a list of his "pinned" articles: Master Index for Reference Articles by Nick Komiya

[lonely panet]

thanks guys. 

 

looks like some good stuff