Signed vs Unsigned Soten tsuba

[Kurikata]

Hi,

 

This newly acquired shakudo tsuba brings 2 questions to me :

 

1 - the vas majority of the Soten tsuba has been signed (generally : Goshu Hikone ju Soheishi / Mogorashi  Nyudo Soten Sei) . When a Soten tsuba is mumei like mine, does it mean that it has not been recognized as legitimate by the school ?

 

2- The design of the Tsuba is 5 of the 8 sennin/immortals  . Does it means that this tsuba is part of a Daisho with the Dai showing 5 sennins and the Sho , the 3 last remaining ?

 

Thank you 

 

Bruno

 

 

[John A Stuart]

I like the idea of the daisho 5+3 thing. Why do you relegate this tsuba as to only Soten? Are there not other schools you could attribute or has it been judged so by one of the groups. John

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Bruno

 

Soten tsuba, made in Hakone, were very popular as gifts and tourist mementos during the Edo period. I discuss this story in a film I made a little while ago, I posted a link to it in this forum a couple of weeks ago.

 

As objects of a particular group if you bought one you would naturally want it to be clearly understood to be 'the real thing' and not a copy... or fake! 

We know that the metalworking guilds were in operation from the Ashikaga period already so such matters among the metalworking community would be a serious matter too. After all, your reputation and the name on your products was your livelihood.

 

So, why then would a tsuba that appears to be Soten not bare a mei?  To my way of thinking, in this case, it suggests that is is not Soten. And I'd suggest that the style, while a little similar, isnt really classic Soten but more 'in the style of..'

 

To your second question, if indeed these figure are some of the 8 immortals then it would be a reasonable assumption to say that the missing tsuba to the pair has the other fellows on it to make up the gang. 

 

 

[Kurikata]

Thank you John and Ford for your comments.

 

@Ford: I obviously watched your film on Soten School (Shop ?) and the reason why they were so popular at that time. It's always a pleasure when you make us more "cleaver". I totally appreciate the fact that my tsuba has been made in the style of...  but without intending to forge the Soten reputation and not coping a false mei. I will make more research as I have no ideas on  the school or workshop which did such tsuba.

 

Thank you  again

 

Bruno

[Jean]

Just FYI, shakudo Soten are not necessarily papered by NBTHK.

 

I have seen a shakudo daisho soten tsuba, sold by Bob Benson and bought by a friend, sent to Japan for papering. It was pink slipped by NBTHK but papered by NTHK....

[Rivkin]

I think this is a good tsuba in Hikone style. The composition and very thin carving in places are not of Soten school per se, but related. Its quite possible such can be correlated with a specific artist if one looks through a decent amount of books...

Regarding what is and what is not Soten, its something unlikely to ever be resolved.

There is thinking that only shakudo tsuba in "Mino-Goto" style can be attributed to the "real" Soten, since they are quite uncommon and relatively old.

Everything with warring figures/sages/processions signed Hikone Ju... was made in significant quantities, and its impossible to understand which were by "the first generation". It was a popular product, also if memory serves right, adopted as official style by Ii Daimyo and thus carried on all clan's swords.

Shakudo ones are 20 times more rare compared to iron ones and tend to be premium grade.

 

Kirill R.

[ROKUJURO]

On 11/20/2020 at 4:35 PM, Ford Hallam said:

.....Soten tsuba, made in Hakone......

Ford,

if I remember correctly, they were made in HIKONE. HAKONE is near FUJI-SAN.

[Ford Hallam]

thanks Jean, yes, sorry...typo. At least I located it correctly on the map in my film

[Steves87]

Bruno, thank you for posting and asking the first question which I have wondered myself in the past. A very interesting looking piece.

 

Kirill, would you have any examples of the potential Mino/Goto Soten pieces that I could see? perhaps through a link (to avoid high jacking a thread)