Murata Swords 村田刀

[Kiipu]

On 11/20/2020 at 4:52 PM, Kiipu said:

Nakago Reverse

新折衷和洋之刀制爰謹令我東京砲兵工廠小銃製造所鍛冶造焉

Page 181 of Slough's book gives the translation as "By order of the new Japanese-European combined sword system,  I respectfully forged this at the Tokyo Artillery Arsenal & Small Arms Factory."  A minor correction is in order though in regards to this translation.  The characters 東京砲兵工廠小銃製造所 translate as "Rifle Factory of Tōkyō Artillery Arsenal."

 

I located a second correction by Morita san to Slough's rendition of 新折衷和洋之刀制爰謹令我東京砲兵工廠小銃製造所鍛冶造焉.  This concerns the last character 焉 which merely means the end of a sentence.

Mr.Slough's Oshigata book.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thomas,

John @PNSSHOGUN just found a beauty that I think might be a zoheito.  Uniquely has the Suya Shoten stamp on the nakago by the number "14"  Is this Yoshichika?  And what is the single kanji at the top of the mei, cut by the ana?

 

Update: After talking it over with John, the Suya stamp likely indicates this blade had been previously fitted by the Suya Shoten Co. and the blade is likely traditionally made.

 

found HERE.

[Bruce Pennington]

Another potential one, though munei and no stamps

 

[Kiipu]

15 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

And what is the single kanji at the top of the mei, cut by the ana?

 

I like the picture of the Suya stamp.  As to the characters, the white piece of paper pictured above shows what they are.  In this case, they are 二代  源良近作之.

二代 = second generation.

源 = Minamoto.

良近 = Yoshichika.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Kiipu

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Kiipu said:

second generation.

How interesting! I didn’t know that was a practice, to indicate that they are second generation. But that would certainly clear up any confusion if both father and son were making swords at the same time and using the same name.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Many Yoshichika swords, Shodai & Nidai, are found in Suya mounts but I have never seen the stamp on a sword before. Could this mean they were making swords for Suya directly at some stage, or at least contracted? As Yoshichika made swords for the Imperial Guards as well perhaps they are all connected somehow.

[PacificRim]

Greetings, it’s been a while, I hope everyone is healthy and safe during this pandemic.  I recently purchased a kyu gunto and I believe it is a Murata Do in Mukade Giri Maru style.  

[PacificRim]

 

[Kiipu]

I did not have a Murata sword recorded for that year so it is a nice addition.

Obverse:  明治廿四年八月 = August 1891.

Reverse: 小銃兼正 =Shōjū Kanemasa.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thomas,

What would say is below the "6"?  Maybe "173"?

[Kiipu]

This is the first one with a 6 and then a number underneath.  It does look like 173; but, it would be best to ask @PacificRim what the number is.

[PacificRim]

Bruce and Thomas,

 

The number underneath is 173.

[Bruce Pennington]

A nice zoheito found by @mecox, thanks Mal!

 

https://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=134007324527&category=165599&pm=1&ds=0&t=1643389175924&cspheader=1

I’m away from home at the moment.  Will post some pics when able.

 

Note the copper mekugi the seller apologized for damaging during removal.  I have seen a couple of these come up recently, and I had mentioned to the owners that I thought it was post-war because I did not know they made copper ones during the war. But this one sure looks like it was original.

[Ontario_Archaeology]

I recently bought one from the Plimpton collection... Here are some photos of the tang. Sorry this might be a murata to. I'm not sure if these are the same or not. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Ontario_Archaeology

[Peter Bleed]

Matt,

I am not sure what there might be to say about you new swords. BUT! I am very glad that you revitalized this thread. It really is very good. I wonder of folks in Tokyo - and at the National Museum are following this discussion. It really is good research!

Peter

 

[Kiipu]

That sword actually dates from 1933 to 1945, more likely earlier rather than later.  The logo is that of Kokura Arsenal along with a Kokura 小 final inspection mark. Below is a link to a drawing of a jig used in the manufacture of your sword blade.  As of 1934, the location of blade manufacture was Kokura Kōshō Tōkyō Heiki Seizō-sho 小倉工廠東京兵器製造所 Tōkyō Ordnance Factory of Kokura Arsenal.  This factory formally belonged to Tōkyō Arsenal but was transferred to Kokura Arsenal when it came into existence in 1933.

System Kaizen behind the Type 32 Gunto production of the 1930s

[Ontario_Archaeology]

The blade is in this koshirae, its interesting that the 1930s era blade would be in 1880ish mounts. This came out of the Plimpton collection. Thanks for the information! 

[Bruce Pennington]

The Type 8/19 'kyugunto' was officially replaced in 1934, so there is a year overlap with what Thomas stated.  But even though the 'official' army sword after 1934 was the shingunto, officers were known to carry the kyugunto through the entire span of WWII (Dawson and Fuller both state this).

[Dave R]

A mix of swords.... 

[Kiipu]

Katana: Shoju Kanemasa (Kogarasumaru shape)

小銃兼正 = Shōjū Kanemasa = Rifle Kanemasa.

明治二十四年六月 = June 1891.

Courtesy of @MarcoUdin.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Kiipu

[Kiipu]

This is an update of Post #27 of 2020-11-27.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Kiipu said:

明治二十四年六月 = June 1891.

Photos for the future when the link above goes dead:

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Almost certain those fittings are modern reproductions, similar ones have cropped up on yahoo.jp auctions before. Here is a stated replica dagger with the same style. A good reminder that not everything coming out of Japan is automatically original.

 

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/w1041773928?conversionType=service_page_search

 

 

 

[Kiipu]

The prefix rifle 小銃 used by Kanemasa 兼正 is most likely the location where the blade was made.  In this case, the Rifle Factory of Tōkyō Artillery Arsenal 東京砲兵工廠小銃製造所.  The first two blades are actually marked with the full name.

[PNSSHOGUN]

One of the replicas: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p1059575293

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 5/11/2022 at 7:46 AM, Ontario_Archaeology said:

I recently bought one from the Plimpton collection... Here are some photos of the tang. Sorry this might be a murata to. I'm not sure if these are the same or not. 

 

This is a 造兵刀，"ホ" is Kokura Army Arsenal  First Factory inspection marks.

[Dirty_Gaijin]

Adding to this. 

 

One my father Imported recently from Japan. Purchased from 刀剣開陽堂 (token kaiyodo) in Kyoto Japan. 

 

A little mistranslation in the slide. According to the owner of the shop, Mr. Yokota, says the blade was signed off as a pseudonym of Murata as "shojyu Kanemasa" as per his book. Made at akabane arsenal in June of the 22nd year of Meiji. 1889. 

 

Authenticated on June 8th, 2001 

[Kiipu]

Welcome to the forum Ryo.  I ran across your father's sword over at GBF and have the number down as 5/95 as shown in the list above.  The 小銃 is probably referring to the location, in this case the Rifle Factory of Tōkyō Artillery Arsenal.

Our Murata Collection so far! Rifles and a rare sword!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Here is one signed Kanemasa: https://www.ebay.com/itm/404081400989?hash=item5e1520dc9d:g:vJMAAOSwJ~tjrlT2

 

[Bruce Pennington]

10 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Kanemasa

Nice one John!  The blade tip doesn't look like a standard zoheito.  Maybe a Muratato?

 

 

Can anyone make out the date?  I see Meiji (1868) [?] 4 year, 8 month.  It's that one kanji I don't recognize:

 

The fittings are really well made, too bad about that wire wrap.

 

 

Also numbered "4  59"