help please

[paulb]

Dear All

A friend asked for help translating the characters on the nakago shown below. The mei itself is fairly straightforward Nobukuni saku  but the remainder are rather unusual. Any assistance would be much appreciated as I am struggling.

 

[Toryu2020]

I believe this is a four character idiom - unfortunately the fourth kanji indecipherable to me...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yojijukugo

[SteveM]

I got the first, third and fourth, but I don't know what the 2nd one is, and nothing is popping up in a search. 

 二囗不淳

[Toryu2020]

try 筒

 

[Bugyotsuji]

So are you guys suggesting 二筒不淳　Futatsu-do, fujun, "two torsos, straight through" ( not thick/fat, = no bother)?

[SteveM]

I couldn't find anything. So...that usually means we misidentified one or more of the kanji. I think 二囗不囗 are a given.

The last could be 淳 or maybe 亭. The second...no idea, but I looked at 筒 and a search didn't reveal anything. I agree it must be a 4-letter idiom, but... my usual search enquiries didn't turn up any plausible candidates. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Steve, for a Saidan Mei, I believe 筒 can be read as Dō meaning an inanimate tube, or body.

See for example

https://www.touken-world.jp/search/15316/

[SteveM]

I don't think its a saidan mei.

[paulb]

Many thanks for your thoughts to date Gentlemen.

without knowing the meaning of the text I would personally question this was a saidan mei. It is after all  a tanto and whilst I am sure it is very efficient logically using it in this manner would be impractical if not impossible. I cant remember seeing a cutting test on a tanto before.

As said I really appreciate your help and thoughts it has certainly foxed me and the person who sent me the images

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

I must say that for some reason I did not imagine this was on a tantō.

The only possibilities left inside my brain, without consulting any heavyweights are that this is a) an added Gimei inscription, b) 筒　つつ　refers to two throats or necks, or c) as suggested, some kind of classical Chinese-style 4-word quote or saying.

[Baka Gaijin]

Just an update Gentlemen,

 

Here is a useful reference source containing over 5000 Yojijukugo.

 

https://www.edrdg.org/projects/yojijukugo.html

 

I've been happily trawling through my image bank of Temple/Shrine and Dojo signs, Tenugui/Hachimaki and Kakejiku, playing UK Lockdown2 "Spot the Yojijukugo".

 

They are everywhere

 

Ki Ken Tai Ichi.............

[paulb]

Thank you Malcolm,

I have sent the link to my friend who can spend a few fruitful hours running through the examples!!!

take care

Paul