US Customs Question

[Katsujinken]

I've got a sword coming over from Japan that is with US Customs now. I had to provide my social as usual, and UPS says Fish & Wildlife are 'taking a look' because of the stingray/same on the tsuka.

 

I shouldn't expect any problems here, right? Anyone had a sword come in via UPS before?

 

Thanks!

[Rivkin]

Ouch, you probably should. Fish and wildlife are the worst. They can take a stand that its basically your duty to prove this particular same does not come from endangered species - because frankly they are not specialists on anything except enforcing certain rules. For example, they will routinely demand something made from walrus to be destroyed because its "elephant ivory" etc.

 

Kirill

[Katsujinken]

What can / should I do at this point? Just wait and see what happens?

 

This is a modern koshirae, but probably a 30-40 years old I would guess.

[Katsujinken]

Actually, it just cleared customs! Guess I got lucky.

[Ken-Hawaii]

I've never had any problem with Customs, nor have I ever had to give my SSN. That sounds a bit fishy.

[Katsujinken]

2 hours ago, Ken-Hawaii said:

I've never had any problem with Customs, nor have I ever had to give my SSN. That sounds a bit fishy.

Not sure if it’s new, but because the package was valued at over $2500 (or somewhere close to that) UPS had to collect a tax ID number as part of their brokerage process. For an individual that’s the SSN. 
 

I initiated contact with UPS myself and saw the package status change after I provided the information. 
 

I was surprised too, but I don’t import that often. 

[John A Stuart]

I import often and never was asked for my  number. It is just too easily abused. John

[Moley]

11 hours ago, Ken-Hawaii said:

. That sounds a bit fishy.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Mark]

when i have received items from out of the country through USPS i have never got a bill for import tax/customs.  When i receive items from other carriers i have been surprised to get a bill, usually a few weeks after i get the item.  Antiques should not be charged/billed (here in the U.S.)  but when i got the bill i tried to explain that and dispute it but it was impossible, too much red tape so i i just paid.   Maybe they want the SS so they can use that when they send you a bill later on. 

[Katsujinken]

2 hours ago, Mark said:

when i have received items from out of the country through USPS i have never got a bill for import tax/customs.  When i receive items from other carriers i have been surprised to get a bill, usually a few weeks after i get the item.  Antiques should not be charged/billed (here in the U.S.)  but when i got the bill i tried to explain that and dispute it but it was impossible, too much red tape so i i just paid.   Maybe they want the SS so they can use that when they send you a bill later on. 

This is a shinsakuto, so not an antique. I did have to pay import charges as soon as it cleared customs. Here’s a screenshot from the tracking that shows the need for a tax ID #. 
 

Could be new, might be a UPS idiosyncrasy, but it’s definitely real and is triggered by the declared value. 

[Ken-Hawaii]

One of my fellow Rotarians is the head of customs in Hawaii, & I asked him about needing my SSN.  His answer was that's it's very unusual to require that, & only when there is no other form of verifiable ID. So, a driver's license should be sufficient, although I use one of the tax IDs for the companies we own.

[Surfson]

Sounds like you got lucky, or maybe better put that you avoided getting unlucky.  If facing this again, it is best to maintain that the same is "shark's skin".  

[Katsujinken]

Apparently I didn’t get lucky and the blade is still in fact with customs, despite what the tracking information says. I had to submit an updated invoice today noting the genus/species of the ray skin and some other information. 
 

Given that this is information no one could possibly know I did the best I could and will hope for the best. Assuming they’re just checking against a list of endangered species there should be no issue. The UPS agent did not seem concerned, but I can’t help but be nervous. 
 

I haven’t contacted the shop yet (Touken Komachi), but if it doesn’t clear tomorrow I’ll have to let them know I’m in a pickle because they didn’t properly declare the contents of the package. Perhaps I should have been more hands on but I figured this shop ships internationally all the time. 
 

I’m happy to have any advice. 

[Rivkin]

3 hours ago, Katsujinken said:

Apparently I didn’t get lucky and the blade is still in fact with customs, despite what the tracking information says. I had to submit an updated invoice today noting the genus/species of the ray skin and some other information. 

 

Yeap, that's the mid-grade unlucky scenario. In principle being determined in naming the species and within the range of possible should be enough to get one off the hook. Its also one of a few cases where titles do help. Worst case you can ask someone with titles to write something on the case.

Still there are cases when they just destroy the contraband "material".

 

Customs is plenty much a random affair. In 95% of cases everything goes smoothly, and then there are 5% when suddenly there is some random claim. Import duty, registration with IRS as potential commercial material, registration as potential important cultural property being smuggled, endangered species, ivory trade - take your pick. They are usually just someone in customs not dealing too often with swords/antiques/etc., first day on the job, bored and just checking the corresponding "to investigate" item.

 

Kirill R.

[Brian]

There is a topic or 2 here on the forum about this exact subject, and what species of ray is used and what to declare it as truthfully.
Just gotta do some searching.

[Brian]

Try these:
https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/1860-importingexporting-and-customs-queries-and-advice/?tab=comments#comment-172225
https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16514-item-held-up-in-us-customs/?tab=comments#comment-172224
https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12696-samegawa/?tab=comments#comment-131417
https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/24789-soon-to-happen-declaration-for-importation-or-exportation-of-fish-or-wildlife/?tab=comments#comment-250909

 

[francois2605]

4 hours ago, Katsujinken said:

I haven’t contacted the shop yet (Touken Komachi), but if it doesn’t clear tomorrow I’ll have to let them know I’m in a pickle because they didn’t properly declare the contents of the package. Perhaps I should have been more hands on but I figured this shop ships internationally all the time. 

 

I frequently receive packages from abroad and am still learning about the things which have to be explicitly added to the item descriptions. The process at customs will depend on who handles your package. Among the things I've recently learnt:

- Explicitly mention that the item being imported is not considered "war material"

- Break down the structure of the address for the sender (especially if from Japan because our and their addresses are so different) so that the sender doesn't have to guess how to fill each address field. That sounds silly but I ended up with a package where the address field CITY was left blank and the sword got a round-trip between France and Japan !

 

I guess this experience goes into the "things you learn the hard way" category.

[Katsujinken]

Okay, an update, and thankfully it should be the last one. UPS just notified me that the package was officially cleared by USFWS this morning (and I have the paperwork to prove it).

 

@Brian I did find those other threads, thank you for sharing them, and thanks to all who have contributed to this topic over the years.

 

And now hopefully I can add this insight to the mix.

 

The amended invoice I submitted contained the following information re: the samegawa:

 

Handle is wrapped in stingray skin (shagreen).

Genus: Dasyatis
Species:  Dasyatis pastinaca
Source: U; (This item is approximately 36 years old.) <-- ['U' is the USFWS code for 'unknown', which is most likely what will apply for shipments like ours because there's no way to know how the animal was obtained.]
Country of origin: Japan

 

This is the invoice that the USFWS used to clear the package and the genus/species they noted on the clearance form. It was truthful to the best of my ability. 

 

That said, after more research I now believe the actual species may be Dasyatis akajei. Everyone should note that this particular species is currently listed 'near threatened,' which is something to keep an eye on in the future. If that status changes for the worse, it could become impossible to import modern samegawa, and difficult/risky to import antique samegawa.

 

All of this is of course only in reference to the USA.

 

Thanks all for your help.

[Yama Arashi]

For what it's worth, I had to go through this same process with UPS, including the ID #, which was my social.

There was a fish and wildlife hold (although the blade was only in shirasaya) and I believe the fee UPS charges is for their handling of the customs process.

 

09/16/2020 3:52 A.M.	Louisville, KY, United States	Departed from Facility
		09/16/2020 1:12 A.M.	Louisville, KY, United States	Import Scan
Past Event	Cleared Customs	09/15/2020 10:42 P.M.	-	Your package was released by the customs agency.
		09/15/2020 2:19 P.M.	-	Import C.O.D. (ICOD) charges have been paid or billed.
		09/15/2020 2:09 P.M.	-	Import C.O.D. charges are due for this package. Select Pay Now.
		09/15/2020 2:09 P.M.	-	Duties or taxes are due on this package.
		09/15/2020 2:56 P.M.	-	A valid ID # (tax, personal, deferment) required for clearance is missing. We're working to obtain this information. / Brokerage released the package. It will be processed through a clearing agency before final release to UPS.
		09/15/2020 11:26 A.M.	-	A valid ID # (tax, personal, deferment) required for clearance is missing. We're working to obtain this information.
		09/15/2020 11:26 A.M.	-	Your package has been delayed due to a Fish and Wildlife Agency hold. / Brokerage released the package. It will be processed through a clearing agency before final release to UPS.
		09/15/2020 11:10 A.M.	Louisville, KY, United States	Warehouse Scan
		09/15/2020 10:30 A.M.	Louisville, KY, United States	Import Scan
		09/12/2020 7:39 P.M.	-	Your package has been delayed due to a Fish and Wildlife Agency hold.
		09/12/2020 12:24 A.M.	Louisville, KY, United States	Arrived at Facility
		09/11/2020 2:41 P.M.	Anchorage, AK, United States	Departed from Facility
		09/11/2020 11:08 A.M.	Anchorage, AK, United States	Arrived at Facility
		09/11/2020 9:50 P.M.	Narita, Japan	Departed from Facility
		09/11/2020 7:59 A.M.	-	The package is at the clearing agency awaiting final release.
		09/11/2020 7:55 P.M.	Tokyo, Japan	Departed from Facility
		09/11/2020 6:39 P.M.	Tokyo, Japan	Origin Scan

[Ooitame]

Good topic, as I bought a koto waki with new koshirae being made in Japan and this is good to know about. Best of luck to all.

 

[Yama Arashi]

UPS never contacted me first for any information, but I was staying on top of the tracking and called them as soon as I saw the ID# information status pop up.
If this happens, you need to call their International shipments department, which is at 1-800-782-7892. I provided my social (although I assume there are other ID# options) and they were fairly quick to get the info to the appropriate people.
I think the "fish and wildlife hold" with these types of items may be automatic with UPS when going through Kentucky, as it is one of their main import hubs for international shipments, in conjunction with the fish and game department. There are plenty of black market/illegal item imports that try to get in under the guise of antiques/swords and so on.

The UPS status that says:

"Import C.O.D. charges are due for this package. Select Pay Now." has a live/clickable link where you can pay the fee with a credit card (mine was approx. $35) I also know of items being sent as "replicas" numerous times from Japan via FedEx, to get around the weapons category stipulation. I can't speak to any risks/issues this could possibly bring up, but FedEx in the United States doesn't have the same weapons restrictions as FedEx Japan does. This particular instance was extremely fast and straight-forward compared to what I'm familiar with, with UPS, and did not require any fees.   FedEx - delivery location redacted; timeline out of order due to country time difference. Wednesday , 10/21/2020 9:47 am Delivered 8:41 am On FedEx vehicle for delivery 8:26 am At local FedEx facility 4:53 am SENNAN-SHI JP In transit 4:35 am SENNAN-SHI JP In transit 4:34 am At destination sort facility 2:42 am OAKLAND, CA Departed FedEx location 12:03 am OAKLAND, CA International shipment release - Import Tuesday , 10/20/2020 9:54 pm NARITA-SHI JP In transit 9:42 pm OAKLAND, CA Arrived at FedEx location 6:30 pm KAWAGUCHI-SHI JP Left FedEx origin facility 12:32 pm KAWAGUCHI-SHI JP Picked up Monday , 10/19/2020 3:29 am Shipment information sent to FedEx

[MHC]

Hello all,

 

As I found out with international shipping of my personal items overseas to Thailand, that it is required to supply your SSN# or a Tax I.D.#

 

So further investigation, showed that it is super simple to just obtain a US federal tax I.D.#. Apply online, it's free, takes about 10 minuets, and lasts your life time, zero negative consequences, only positive. 

 

So for all you US citizens, there is no reason not to do it, can solve/simplify many things.

 

Mark