Tanto conundrum

[Bugyotsuji]

For those who like tying their brains in knots and wringing them.
 

I have a papered Yoroidōshi Tanto, signed 俊宗 which translates to Toshimuné, I think. It was papered Tokuju in Showa 43 by the NBTHK, but the Mei does not look strange in any way. The hamon is typically Mino but I cannot find any Toshimuné smiths recorded from Mino. The Kanji 宗 Muné and 俊 Toshi were used by some Kotō Mino smiths, for example there was a 正俊Masatoshi in Muromachi Sakakura/Seki.

There were at least two Bizen smiths and one late Edo Tosa smith by that name but why would any of them create a tanto with a Seki hamon? If it is Gimei, why insert a lesser known Mei?
Judging by the healthy Kasané it should be Bakumatsu, methinks.

Simple Meikan moré? Did any Mino/Seki lineage smiths forge Sanbon-Sugi in other provinces?

 

"Ladies and Gentlemen!", uh.... er, I mean, "Folks! The floor is open!"

 

[Jean]

 « Did any Mino/Seki lineage smiths forge Sanbon-Sugi in other provinces? »

 

certainly Piers, there is no reason why they should not exist. The Diaspora of Mino smiths in Momoyama/early Edo was such that some must have brought sanbonsugi along in their luggages

[Shugyosha]

Hi Piers,

Apologies if this is a silly question, but is there not a detailed write-up in the papers that might suggest its origin? You did say it had Tokubetsu Juyo papers...

[Bugyotsuji]

Thank you kindly, Jean. I have been looking at Chounsai Toshimune (disciple of *Chounsai Toshitsuna) and there are some similarities, despite the very different hamon.

 

The age may be right. (Even the NBTHK paperwork is the same writing and year or thereabouts!)

http://kako.nipponto.co.jp/swords/KT112175.htm

 

*studied under Suishinshi Masahide, https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/長運斎綱俊#:~:text=長運斎綱俊（ちょう,水心子正秀に学ぶ。

[Bugyotsuji]

John, no they're old *Kicho papers, with no description, no nothing apart from the name. Looks just like the paperwork for the wakizashi above. 

 

*My mistake.

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

https://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords3/KY328097.htm

 

And another Toshitsuna disciple, this guy Chounsai Koretoshi's hamon is more similar.

[Geraint]

Dear Piers.

 

Firstly, I think you are absolutely correct in identifying this as a late Shinshinto work, although you don't give us the nagasa, the sugta, the kasane and the feel are all indicative of that.

Jean is also spot on though perhaps understating the case.  Mino smiths moved all over Japan in the Shinto period and many carried on with the work style.  Echizen Seki and Inshu Kanesaki school for example.  

From what I can see I wouldn't have called the hamon sanbonsugi however, perhaps more togari gunome,  which still has a Mino feel.

I think a number of smiths got a bit lost during the Bakumatsu, perhaps those just starting up and not yet enjoying a reputation in particular.

 

 

I like the koshirae.

 

All the best.

[Bugyotsuji]

Geraint, many thanks for your thoughtful answer. The Nagasa is 15.3 cm. Your interpretation of the hamon is interesting. I think I may be learning something.

 

About the koshirae, there is a strange rectangular repair inside the Koikuchi, which may indicate that it once had a hidden coin slide. I have left it all with the Togishi to take out some ugly scratches on the mune. 

 

One of our NBTHK members mentioned that this type of Koshirae was popular after Haitorei. You could hide this inside against your  breast inside your kimono, when people were forbidden to carry a sword.

 

My sword sensei said little, except "why would anyone want to forge with this name?" He seemed to think everything (mei and aperwork) was legit. I guess that the blade did not excite him! 

 

PS The Nihonto Meikan says Toshimune and Hidenobu are the same person, if this is who we are talking about. The registration card is shown as Hokkaido and dated the same year as the NBTHK paperwork above.

[Katsujinken]

I agree with your sensei. Put it in for Hozon after the togishi is done, if you want. Being a local it seems like a no brainer to me. Interesting piece!

[Rivkin]

Rough jigane with Masame, periodic gunome, typical Mino, late Muromachi (seeing nakago would confirm the age)... I don't think any shinsa will go further than just copy the signature and declare it authentic. There are plenty of unlisted smiths. Also late Muromachi had Mino-Bizen styles going around quite a lot. You see Kaifu blades which are Naminohira, but there are also Mino ones.

I am sorry to say something quite controversial, but I don't know why such blades need any papers. 

Its like one constantly see people showing with pride TH to ko-kinko, and I always have the question "what else did they expect?". Ok, maybe a small chance for ko-Mino.

 

Kirill R.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I would look towards Chōunsai Toshimune as you have gone for

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Hmmm... splits in the opinions here. Schizophrenic blade! I'll post a couple more blade shots today when I get a minute. Sadly I do not have it here so the nakago and Mei are not available, apart from the little oshigata on the paperwork above.

[Rivkin]

I don't think kasane is a strong point here, I have a few koto ones this thick... But nakago could tell a lot. Deep, well spaced yasurime=shinshinto. Anything else I personally would go with later Muromachi.

 

Kirill R.

[Bugyotsuji]

Hate to be honest around here, but my first thought on seeing the jigané was Sue-Kotō Muromachi. On the strength of that instinct alone I started bidding. I do accept though that some revivalist Shin-shin-tō smiths aimed for a Kotō effect in their blades, and this blade Sugata does look otherwise very healthy.

Here are the only shots I have at the moment.

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

And... last ones.

[Bugyotsuji]

Update.

 

There were some pretty ugly scratches along the mune so I left it with the Togishi about ten days ago. The phone rang to say it is ready. I wonder what he has done?  (He says he has also completed some touch-up work on a Nio wakizashi for me.)

 

We have our monthly NBTHK meeting next Saturday so I plan to collect it there. With any luck the local members might offer some pertinent insights regarding the background to this Tanto.

[Bugyotsuji]

Finally able to take a shot of the Nakago and Mei.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Just to emphasize: without any special deep reason, I bought this at auction, on a whim, and at a seriously good price. I still do not know for sure what it is, but  may I express a big thank-you to everyone who offered learned suggestions, which have led to a couple of likely possibilities. I sense the blade has much more to tell. (Perhaps the uncertainty, the unknown factor was what kept the price down.) 

 

To anyone thinking of starting on this path, there are genuine examples out there, and you do not have to raid the piggy bank. 🐖... 💥 🔫🤠  

[Shugyosha]

It doesn’t always give a clear picture but the patina on the tang looks more Muromachi than shinshinto to me. 
 

With the koshirae it’s a nice package and I’d be happy to own it; nothing not to like there. 

[ROKUJURO]

Without any doubt it is a nice and interesting piece in good condition. However, the patina leaves me  a little suspicious, as it could have been artificially done. The MEKUGI-ANA has a sharp edge or burr, if I am seeing this right, and this may make one think of a SHIN-SHINTO UTSUSHI.  

[Blazeaglory]

I agree with the patina looking a little off and would think this is shinto or shin shinto. Still a very awesome blade! Freaking beefy!