Couple of swords - opinions

[AlikN]

Hello everyone! Here is a couple of swords that I just picked up and want to learn more about it.

 

[AlikN]

First is a longer one .

 

 

 

 

 

[AlikN]

...

 

 

[AlikN]

Sized those pictures down, here is the second one.

[b.hennick]

Hi Anik

I reduce the file size by setting the resolution to 120 dpi and the physical size at either 10" height or 8" width. You do not want megapixel images but kb pixels.

[vajo]

Alik, you show two Gunto Koshirae in good condition. More i can't see on your pictures.

[French nihonto]

Hello anik
The Koshirae had a good condition. 
Even if for the appreciation of a blade the frame (koshirae) is not taken into account, the most important thing is the blade itself.

[AlikN]

Thanks everyone! I just added some new resized pictures.

[mywei]

The first one has got a mino feel to it IMO

 

The wakizashi is interesting, signed Aizu Motooki with a cutting test. 

 

[French nihonto]

Very nice blade with cutting test, Aizu Motooki has the rare peculiarity of being born with the title of samurai, before becoming a blacksmith.

[16k]

I agree that the first one has the usual Seki feel to it. It could be traditional, but somehow, I doubt it as I have Avery similar blade (my very first one actually, mumei, no stamp, but definitely non-traditional.

 

The second one, on the contrary, appears to be valuable and I like the sugata and Hada. Great find imho

[French nihonto]

What's that black dot on the surface of the first blade that forms a line? some symbols almost look like man-made.

[16k]

Probably a clump of ji nie (sumigane).

[Geraint]

Dear Alik.

 

Well, the first one at the moment seems fairly ordinary, don't do anything to it except wipe the blade down with a little light oil at the moment.  Forgive me if you know this but you should never touch the blade with bare hands, only the nakago, (tang).

 

The second is fare more interesting and you should go carefully with it.  Ideally a member here will be within reach and will be able to give you a more informed opinion from and in hand examination.  To start with it is a nice shape, the large kissaki, (point),is often found in Shinshinto swords.  The signature is of a very good smith and the cutting test makes it even more desirable.  Now a caution, big names are often faked so don't give up the day job just yet.

 

It is in it's civilian koshirae, (mounts), which still has the kurikata and fittings protruding through the leather combat cover.

 

If these are your first two Japanese swords then you have done well, we look forward to seeing what happens with that wakizashi.

 

All the best.

[French nihonto]

30 minutes ago, 16k said:

Probably a clump of ji nie (sumigane).

Possible, by enlarging it seems less "natural" than a sumigane, with well defined symbols such as the "S", the arrow and the well defined point at the bottom. But it's probably my imagination, you're probably right.
 

[vajo]

Mino Waki in Gunto Koshirae with cutting test is very nice.

You should handle it with care. 

[16k]

34 minutes ago, French nihonto said:

Possible, by enlarging it seems less "natural" than a sumigane, with well defined symbols such as the "S", the arrow and the well defined point at the bottom. But it's probably my imagination, you're probably right.
 

No, not a sumigane. We weren’t speaking about the same sword. Here, I have no idea what this is. Almost looks man made. Perhaps an inclusion of some sort...

[vajo]

No clear line of the shinogi. The polish is terrible. Maybe someone tryed to polish it.

Something funny. I read a book about a hidden treasure on a pacific island during the ww2 and the Japanese commander had scripted the place on a samurai sword. I didn't remember the name but maybe? 😉

 

[sabiji]

The small sign on the Kabutogane of the big sword could be read as "Ishima" (Katakana).

[French nihonto]

44 minutes ago, vajo said:

No clear line of the shinogi. The polish is terrible. Maybe someone tryed to polish it.

Something funny. I read a book about a hidden treasure on a pacific island during the ww2 and the Japanese commander had scripted the place on a samurai sword. I didn't remember the name but maybe? 😉

 

I confess, it's a little bit where I wanted to go, it looks a lot like what we found on the maps concerning the famous treasure of Yamashita, they even created a code for the occasion it seems to me, we can find fragments of this code everywhere. It makes me think a lot about it. You never know.

A fragment of this famous code:

[vajo]

Wow - now we have a treasure map on a blade! 😀

 

[French nihonto]

43 minutes ago, vajo said:

Wow - now we have a treasure map on a blade! 😀

 

Haha  it's probably not the case but that's already seen. 
It is especially a good pretext to talk about this exciting story of the treasure of Yashimata.
Holds other fragments of the code, it's for you Chris  :

 

[vajo]

Haha thanks that is cool.

[george trotter]

The first blade looks to me like a greatly shortened old blade. The paint marks on the tang say 57.

The name plate on the pommel are in katakana script for foreign words and seem to be a name  I - Tsu - Ma (Itsuma) or maybe I'MA (the tsu being an abbreviation sign so that the name is said IMA instead of IiTsuMa...hope that makes sense.

Regards,

[AlikN]

Thank you guys!  ...for all of the info and suggestions.

Here is another picture of that spot .

Is there any members in Seattle area?

[AlikN]

One more question,  use of wakasashi in ww2 instead of a full size sword. Was this guy to short to use a full size or his speciality wouldn't allow him to use it?

[Stephen]

Its a blister ...not intended.

[SteveM]

12 hours ago, AlikN said:

One more question,  use of wakizashi in ww2 instead of a full size sword. Was this guy to short to use a full size or his speciality wouldn't allow him to use it?

 

The sword is a family heirloom, rather than a newly-made arsenal sword. The bearer had military mounts made for his family sword. There are many such short swords repurposed for military use. They are often erroneously referred to as "pilot's swords", with the assumption being that pilots would use shorter swords, but I think this site has disproven that claim fairly comprehensively. 

 

The inscription (the ones in blue are written by the cutting tester)

 

乳割土壇払  Chichi-wari dotanbarai
天保十年二月日於江府作  Tenpō jūnen nigatsujitsu oite Kōfu saku

 

会津住元興  Aizu-jū Moto-oki
同年十月二日於千住神谷清治試之   Dōnen jūgatsu futsuka, oite Senjū Kamiya Kiyoharu tamesu kore

 

Cut across the chest
Made in Tenpō 10 (1839) February, Kōfu

 

Moto-oki from Aizu province/city
Cutting test performed in the same year, October 2nd, at Senjū, by tester Kamiya Kiyohara 

 

So the swordsmith Moto-oki made this sword in February of 1839, and someone had it tested by cutting it across the chest of a cadaver (probably) in October of 1839. I didn't find this tester's name in Guido's list of famous testers, or anywhere else on the internet, so it looks like the tester is someone lost to history. It also looks like the tester didn't have room to write everything on one side, so he continued on the other side, which is slightly unusual. 

 

The longer sword is a typical military/arsenal blade. 

[Dave R]

11 hours ago, AlikN said:

One more question,  use of wakasashi in ww2 instead of a full size sword. Was this guy to short to use a full size or his speciality wouldn't allow him to use it?

 

 The Japanese army had problems with getting enough swords, and relaxed their original specifications somewhat. They also had sword buying drives where they bought them from the general public in Japan, and accepted blades shorter than regulation. The pdf below explains it in more detail.

gunto call up 12-23-2017.pdf

[Brian]

Steve,
I LOVE the way you take the time to format your answer and even highlight in colour. I think I speak for us all when I say huge thanks and we all appreciate it.