Is this "decorated" nakago a known thing by this maker?

[waljamada]

This is a gunto sword and a blade that doesnt appear to have any stamp but it has a unique nakago as far as I know.  Thought I'd put it up on here and see what the scoop is.  Perhaps the maker did this like a hot stamp?   

[PNSSHOGUN]

It is a style of Yasurime, have seen it before from a few smiths. Your example looks like Noshu Ju____Masa something, still have a ways to go reading Kanji myself. 

[Brian]

Have seen a few myself. Just a yasurime preference by some smiths. Usually Seki wartime ones.

[Stephen]

Masayuki

 

Blade photos please

[waljamada]

Stephen,

 

Here's what is up and sadly the pics are found wanting.

[BANGBANGSAN]

正行 Masayuki 

Tag says 曹長 Staff Sergeant ，the owner should be carrying NCO sword instead. 

[Stephen]

Field promotion?

Nice looking blade n hamon.

Hope the dark area is not spider rust.

Nice pick up.

[Bruce Pennington]

This is a classic gunto that highlights how much we really don't know.  According to Nick's document, this gunto was likely carried by a Gunzuko officer equivalent.  But the tag says SSgt!  I could imagine a G.I. grabbing a sword without a tassel, and finding one (even though it's the wrong rank) adding it to the sword.  But the idea that he would have found a cloth tag and added it to a sword seems extremely unlikely to me.  Even the Gunzuko, though, were supposed to carry a sword commensurate with their equivalent rank.  So if the guy were an NCO equivalent he should have been carrying a Type 95.

 

I've started adding these oddballs to my files.  The norm is the officer sword with an NCO leather tassel.  But this one is even stranger. I feel like Stephen, that guys may have been NCOs given promotion orders, but had not gone through the process of upgrading all his equipment.  But that's just supposition for now..

[waljamada]

Bruce, Interesting, so perhaps tells a story of either the Japanese soldier climbing the ranks or the us soldier piecing it together to take it home.  

 

Stephen, didn't purchase it, just came across it and hadn't seen a nakago like that one.  Found it interesting and knew I'd be able to learn about it here.  The price is higher than I'd want to pay even though i think its really neat and I think its a showato blade.  I have to constantly hold myself back from spending anything while new house hunting and refinancing a rental property.  But once that's all done I shall reward with a sword!

[Stephen]

Doubt its showato with no stamp.

Perhaps share link if your not going after it.

If you have sloughs book check pg 107

A Masatsugu has same file marks

[waljamada]

Same guy has another blade with a w stamp for sale in mixed fittings.

[Stephen]

Must have missed the w on Masayuki.

Bruce can tell you all about the w stamp.

His field of study.

2nd blade is Takehisa

[Peter Bleed]

yeah, and dated 1943

[waljamada]

Stephen, sorry just saw your listing request.  The link to the ebay listing is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/353241689804

 

He sent me some additional photos of the Masayuki of some rust spots, one looks like spider rust but it is a cool blade.  Still can't tell if its gendaito but if its from 1943 (thanks Peter Bleed) and its not stamped then...maybe?  

[Stephen]

Think Massyuki is 1942 the Takehisa 43

Either way he wants too much or im behind times. Thanks for sharing.

[Bruce Pennington]

Interesting Takahisa.  Only the 2nd I've gotten pics of since I've started filing them, and both are Autumn '43, though different painted numbers, so clearly different blades.  The current leanings on the "W" is that it is an inverted "M", or double chevron, indicating a half-way inspection.  May not have any meaning as to whether it was gendaito or showato, don't know.  Takahisa was one of a known 8 smiths (plus Mantetsu, so 9) known to come with the occasional W.

[Dave R]

13 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

This is a classic gunto that highlights how much we really don't know.  According to Nick's document, this gunto was likely carried by a Gunzuko officer equivalent.  But the tag says SSgt!  I could imagine a G.I. grabbing a sword without a tassel, and finding one (even though it's the wrong rank) adding it to the sword.  But the idea that he would have found a cloth tag and added it to a sword seems extremely unlikely to me.  Even the Gunzuko, though, were supposed to carry a sword commensurate with their equivalent rank.  So if the guy were an NCO equivalent he should have been carrying a Type 95.

 

I've started adding these oddballs to my files.  The norm is the officer sword with an NCO leather tassel.  But this one is even stranger. I feel like Stephen, that guys may have been NCOs given promotion orders, but had not gone through the process of upgrading all his equipment.  But that's just supposition for now..

 

 Gunzoku were given army ranks but were counted as one step up from that  rank when it came to swords. This according to Nick because of their better educational qualifications, so this looks legit, and confirmation of that very thing..

 

 The detail is in here, and it is worth reading the whole thing.https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/what-were-regulations-army-civilian-employees-carry-swords-701783/

[Dave R]

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Dave R said:

one step up from that  rank when it came to swords. This according to Nick because of their better educational qualifications

Shoot, I remember that conversation now!  Thanks Dave!  He was addressing my concern, earlier in the conversation, that Gunzuko NCOs carrying an officer sword would be an insult to IJA officers. 

 

So, having forgotten that, I have been telling guys that the all-brown tassel was likely carried by Gunzuko, in general, but it was more specific - the NCO Gunzuko were to use the all-brown tassel.  Officer Gunzuko were permitted to use the colored ones equivalent to their ranks.

[vajo]

I would need that saya Adam 🙊

[Bruce Pennington]

A slight correction to the rank on the cloth strip on the top sword.  Guy, Warrelics said: "曹長 Sōchō. Master Sergeant / Sergeant Major."

[lambo35]

I recently bought a tassel that is in frayed condition, it has the blue side/brown side strap but the tassels are all brown no blue. The  two knot sliders are somewhat tapered, unlike I've seen on reproduction tassels. Any one seen this combination before?

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Another update on the Gunzuko tasseled sword with name tag:

小谷軍曹
Ōtani So-chō

From Guy at Warrelics.

But Nick Komiya is adamant that it is wrong either way - A Gunsuko NCO equivalent wouldn't use IJA rank in his name; nor would an IJA MSgt carry a sword with a Gunzuko tassel.  They think, due to the mixed writing on the tag, that it's a fake tag, added to increase value.  I wrote to the seller and got a full photo of the tag.

[waljamada]

Bruce,

 

Cool learning all this so thank you for sharing.  I think the seller originally thought the sword was from a "master surgeon".   I just looked up the sword to see if it has sold (still available) and noticed he's added a bunch of updated photos and you can tell what questions people were asking him.  I had originally asked if he saw any other stamps and he said no but I see he looked a bit further and found a seki stamp on the nakago.  I had a baseless assumption that a special nakago design would infer a likely gendaito...wrong...some seki smiths just had flair.