Rinji Seishiki Gunto blade length

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 10/3/2020 at 11:32 AM, PNSSHOGUN said:

You are thinking of @reeder

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Thanks John, PM sent!

[reeder]

Some of this is off of memory as I've moved on from most of them and not sure I got all of the Type 3 I've owned actually recorded as being in Type 3 mounts vs just being a sword I owned. Saya type is specified in parentheses.  Wood saya blades were all gendai, steel with the exception of the Kanenori were all showato.

 

Akihisa (wood) - 26"

Hidehiro (wood) - 25"-26"

Hiromasa (wood) - 25 3/4"

Kanemune (steel) - 26"?

Katsumasa (steel) - 25"-26"

Mumei (wood) - 25"-26"

Nagamitsu x7 (wood) - 25"-27 1/4"

Don't remember smith (steel) - 25"-26"

Chikamitsu (wood) - 26"-27"

Emura (wood) - 26 5/16"

Kanenori (steel, star stamped) - 26"

Kawano Sadashige (wood) - 24 7/8"

Masahisa (wood saya that was 30") - 26"-27"

 

For Type 3s,  I assume the mantetsu-to were also 26 1/4".  The 100 or so Type 98s I've gone through were 25"-27" with most being about 26".  The Naval Kyu-guntos were all under 26" w/ blades that were Koto and shinto.  The Kai-guntos were 25"-27" with most being mid 25"s, have had a mix of showato, stainless, & gendai.  The army Kyu-guntos I've owned or seen were all over the board from 24" to 28" with a mix of traditionally made blades and arsenal blades.  I think the largest wartime blade I've seen and another I've heard of had a 30" nagasa.  It was signed Masayuki, which I believe was Iijima Masayuki iirc.

 

[george trotter]

  On 10/3/2020 at 8:03 AM, IJASWORDS said:

Rinji.... 

Katsumasa.... 68.2

Katsumasa.....68.1

Noringa.....68.5

Yoshitada.....69.0

Tomonari (star stamp).....66.8

Nagamitsu.....65.8

Kaneyoshi (star stamp).....67.5

Emura.....68.5 

 

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Hi Neil,

Are any of these in the light tan steel scabbard Seki-made mounts?

[george trotter]

  On 10/3/2020 at 2:57 PM, reeder said:

Some of this is off of memory as I've moved on from most of them and not sure I got all of the Type 3 I've owned actually recorded as being in Type 3 mounts vs just being a sword I owned. Saya type is specified in parentheses.  Wood saya blades were all gendai, steel with the exception of the Kanenori were all showato.

 

Akihisa (wood) - 26"

Hidehiro (wood) - 25"-26"

Hiromasa (wood) - 25 3/4"

Kanemune (steel) - 26"?

Katsumasa (steel) - 25"-26"

Mumei (wood) - 25"-26"

Nagamitsu x7 (wood) - 25"-27 1/4"

Don't remember smith (steel) - 25"-26"

Chikamitsu (wood) - 26"-27"

Emura (wood) - 26 5/16"

Kanenori (steel, star stamped) - 26"

Kawano Sadashige (wood) - 24 7/8"

Masahisa (wood saya that was 30") - 26"-27"

 

For Type 3s,  I assume the mantetsu-to were also 26 1/4".  The 100 or so Type 98s I've gone through were 25"-27" with most being about 26".  The Naval Kyu-guntos were all under 26" w/ blades that were Koto and shinto.  The Kai-guntos were 25"-27" with most being mid 25"s, have had a mix of showato, stainless, & gendai.  The army Kyu-guntos I've owned or seen were all over the board from 24" to 28" with a mix of traditionally made blades and arsenal blades.  I think the largest wartime blade I've seen and another I've heard of had a 30" nagasa.  It was signed Masayuki, which I believe was Iijima Masayuki iirc.

 

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Oh I saw this after I posted the previous just now.

Your list of steel scabbard Seki-made mounts seems to show that my 62 cm Kanehide blade may just be an oddity. Yours all (both showato and gendaito) seem "normal" 25-26 inch (64-66.5 cm) lengths.

Thanks for this info Brandon, I think you have answered the question....that no, there was no rigid "rule" on shortened blades in the Seki Rinji system, or if there was no-one obeyed it, and it sure seems, from my 69.5 cm blade above in OP,  that the private order wood scabbard type Rinji also did what they liked!

Good info...

Regards,

[vajo]

I think they made it fitted to the soldier who must carry it.

In the US propaganda movie "Know your enemy" they said the avarage Japanese soldier is 165 cm tall and 53kg in weight. So the blades varies. Big soldier, big sword. Small soldier, small sword.

[IJASWORDS]

Hi George, the Yoshitada and Kaneyoshi are in the light tan steel mounts. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Have we had any comparisons of the same smith in Type 98 & Type 3 mounts yet?

[george trotter]

Thanks Neil...The RJT Kaneyoshi 67.5 cm is on left? (2 buttons).

The Yoshitada 69.0 cm showato? is on the right? Wow, that is one long blade in a steel scabbard Rinji type...must be a heavy sword! I know that my 62.5 cm RJT Kanehide blade in steel scabbard Rinji Type (OP pic) is the heaviest sword  / mounts combo I have. I', 6'2" (188 cm) and I'd hate to have to lug it around all day hanging from my belt.

As John says...be good to see the same makers' blades in Type 98 mounts for comparison...but in reality, I think we are seeing that the variations in pre-Rinji blades is simply continuing into the Type Rinji group also...as Chris says...big soldier big sword - little soldier little sword

Regards,

[IJASWORDS]

George, all your assumptions correct. These swords are hefty units. Not only long, but thick and deep blades, and also very heavy. In fact, with the steel saya, my two heaviest gunto. Comparison of heavy Kaneyoshi blade to regular Showa blade. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by IJASWORDS
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[PNSSHOGUN]

How heavy are they compared to a Koa Isshin Mantetsu? That is my heaviest sword by far, all my large Nagasa swords are in either wood or aluminium Saya.

[Dave R]

  On 10/4/2020 at 6:57 AM, IJASWORDS said:

George, all your assumptions correct. These swords are hefty units. Not only long, but thick and deep blades, and also very heavy. In fact, with the steel saya, my two heaviest gunto. Comparison of heavy Kaneyoshi blade to regular Showa blade. 

 

 

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  Quick question, which Kaneyoshi? I have a blade by Okada Kaneyoshi and it's a noticeably robust blade compared to others I have seen and handled.  Made for type 98 mounts.

[george trotter]

Lots of interesting info coming in - will need Bruce to figure it all out...

 

Anyway, I just weighed the RJT Kanehide sword in steel scabbard Seki type Rinji mounts in OP pic (with 2 buttons/dust cover seppa). Weighed complete is 4.165 pounds or 1.889212 kg...call it 1.9 kg...... I told you it was heavy.

Neil san, I bet that RJT Kaneyoshi 67.5 cm of yours  in the same steel scabbard Rinji mounts (2 buttons/dust cover seppa) is about 2+ kg. Must have been hard work to cart around all day.

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 10/4/2020 at 1:19 PM, george trotter said:

need Bruce to figure it all out.

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Ahem.... how do I keep getting YOUR projects!?!?! Ha!

 

Well, it's a pretty small sampling, but so far it looks like they are all over the place.

Chris and Neil both have a Yoshitada: Chris - 62.5  & Neil - 69.0  with the Mil spec at 66.6.  Yours, George is short compared to the rest (Chris' is the only shorter), while the rest are longer than the spec.  I didn't look the gendaito over, but I suspect the same from them. 

 

Interesting hypothesis, about the gendaito being longer, but I'm feeling like it was simply because of your sample-size of 2.

 

I'll say, though, that even if wrong, you still broadened our understanding of gunto by your probing question and that's always a good thing!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Would be well over 2kgs with a chain hanger + all the other weapons and equipment carried....I can see why many of them had the lighter weight saya. 

[george trotter]

Ahem indeed!! (I am naughty pushing work onto you Bruce...I'll try to be good ha ha).

Yes John, another heavy chain hanger added on to the OA weight would wear you down by gin & tonic time in the evening for sure.

 

I know half of what we've noted is probably just everyday variation, and maybe the sword authorities didn't really have time to push hard on "details", but one thing that has come out of these Type Rinji chats is that, although they are "generally" less attractive than high class Type 98 mounts, there certainly is interest. The pics subnitted show some nice swords...those 5 of yours Chris...fantastiv, especially the mounts on #3...love the colour and texture.

Here's my "one-off" private order Rinji (for the umteenth time). Love the private order Rinji. (62.1 cm).

Regards,

[vajo]

Wow that looks great George. A very nice sword.