RJT Mei Help

[Bruce Pennington]

From an old post on the Arsenal Stamps thread.  I'm starting to log RJT star-stamped blades and would appreciate a mei translation on this one.  I think the year is 1943, right?

 

Thanks!!! Love you guys!

[uwe]

I would say “肥前国正次” (Hizen no Kuni Masatsugu)
Nengo seems right: “皇紀 2603” as far I can tell....

[mecox]

Yes it is Taguchi Masatsugu.  

Hizen no Kuni Masatsugu

Koki ni sen roku hiaku san nen u-zuki kichi jitsu

(uzuki is April, year of the Hare , U Nen)

“lucky day 4^th month 2603 years Japanese Empire” (April 1943)

This old oshigata is from Mr Han Bing Siong of Netherlands Token Society.  I believe they got NBTHK papers from Japan for it.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thank you gentlemen!

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, here's one for you. Star stamp ENDO TOMONARI, July 1944. 

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, IJASWORDS said:

here's one for you. Star stamp ENDO TOMONARI, July 1944.

Thanks Neil, any other inspector stamps on it?

[IJASWORDS]

Only number 24 stamped on Mune. 

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, IJASWORDS said:

Only number 24 stamped on Mune.

Picture Please!

 

I wish we could pin down the shop that was stamping numbers rather than using paint.  But they seem to be affiliated with higher-end blades.  Maybe it was considered "classier" by the shop owner.

[george trotter]

Not sure if I'm helping Bruce, but knowing you are a good detective, I have some info on the tang-mune numbers that appear on swords in those high class Rinji mounts (which I think, from those I have seen, come only from the Kyoto/Osaka/Hyogo area).

I have seen (now with this Tomonari) as follows:

Endo Tomonari              Hyogo  Star   19/7  mune = 24

Takashima Kunihide     Kyoto   Star   19/8  mune = 90  (papered NBTHK 1991 Hozon) 

Takashima Kunihide     Kyoto   Star   19/8  mune = 98  (mine - photo attached)

Takashima Kunihide     Kyoto   Star   19/8  mune = 99

 

These are from research on Kunihide...there are  others I didn't think to record...one named to Osaka. Exactly where the mounting shop/chain of shops who used these mounts and marked the mune was located...well...wish I knew.

Regards

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, george trotter said:

Not sure if I'm helping

George,

That's very useful info, thanks!  I am still in the gathering stage.  I included your earlier post on the Akihisa and Munetoshi Yamagami blades.  In it, you point out that prior to the Army's assumption of control over national sword making in 1942, their blades were just numbered, but beginning in '42 they added the Matsu stamp, and finally in '44 the Matsu was replaced with kanji that could be associated with their prefectures - which matches the way stamping changed for all arsenals and blades.  While it is WAY too early to draw conclusions, this all has the hint, the faintest whisper, to me of numbering done by smiths and/or arsenals rather than fitting shops.  Fittings shops, as far as I know (which is very little!) weren't responsible to these stamping laws, it was the smith/forge and arsenal who were held to this.  But, like I say, too early to even say that!

[george trotter]

Yes, as you say Bruce, too early to tell. I have to say that since I put that Yamagami numbers list together, I have seen numbers on other tangs, and am now wondering if they really are smith numbers.

I say this as my Tsukamoto Masakazu tang dated 17/4 (Apr. 1942) is numbered 1129 (and all parts)...so the question arises, how can Masakazu (later in 1942 a RJT smith) who only "graduated" from his brother Okimasa's sword training forge in Setagaya, Tokyo, in about mid-1941, have moved to Fukushima, set up his own forge, and produced his 1129th sword in April 1942? (that would be close to 100 swords/month).

An excellent Japanese source on RJT smiths I got from Morita sama and Chris Bowen sensei says that in the 6 months 14 Aug. 1944 - 26 Feb 1945 Masakazu made 97 RJT swords (about 16/month), so the number 1129 (100/month when he was a private smith) must be "just a number"?.

Maybe it is a contract number between smith and mounting shop (just a number in amongst all their other customer numbers?)...maybe it is just mounting shop number to keep all the parts from getting mixed up with other swords? I just am not sure.

 

Again, with the Yamagami brothers, that MATSU in a circle stamp is local to Niigata (so far only them)...but is it (and the number) theirs or their local mounting shop?

 

So, I hope I haven't confused everyone...I know you like mysteries Bruce...this is a beauty!...hope I don't read about a Japanese Sword Collector going crazy in the US in the near future!!!!

Regards,

[Bruce Pennington]

Well, I have an aversion to pain, so I won't be pulling my hair out!  And I've been married for decades, so I've given up on sanity long ago!

 

Of course, the answer may turn out to be "Both are true".  But unless we get a real breakthrough, like an Army document or a book like that one Morita-san found for us in the Mantetsu study, we likely will never find out.  Won't stop me from trying, though!  Sanity is over-rated anyway!

[davidequis]

This is additional research info for those interested in munetoshi swords.

 

This sword came back from PNG sometime during the war. 

 

Original Australian owner was a medic.

 

its acquisition history is not known. Possibly from Milne bay.

 

blade is in as new condition, which I assume is a reflection of the quality of the steel.

 

Handle, leather scabbard cover and fittings are showing their age.

[Bruce Pennington]

That's a great example David!  Racking my brains for another leather covered Rinji seishiki model, but I can't recall seeing one.  No reason a guy wouldn't want to protect his RS saya, I just don't recall seeing it before.  Very Cool!

 

Is the blade star-stamped?  If so, could I get a pic?  Also any other stamps on it?

5 hours ago, davidequis said:

munetoshi swords

 

[george trotter]

Nice sword David,

I have one by him in the same mounts (no leather cover) with star stamp. Mine is 7 months after yours being date 18/5 (May 1943) and matsu in a circle stamp is number 1080.

BTW (for our US friends) Milne Bay in PNG was one hell of a battle (25 Aug-7 Sept 1942) and the Aussies stopped the Japanese there...didn't stop the war, but drastically weakened the Japanese army in PNG.

Going by the date on your sword David (17/10 = Oct 1942) your friend's dad (while being a medic at Milne Bay himself) probably got the sword some time later, at one of the later battles/surrender.

Great stuff,

Regards,

[davidequis]

Thanks Bruce and George, 

 

There is no sign of a star. 

 

What was posted is all we can see.

 

There was another post that mentioned that munetoshi started using the star in November 1942, one month after the production of this sword.

 

I have read that we should not do anything with the rust on the tang...is this correct?

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, davidequis said:

I have read that we should not do anything with the rust on the tang...is this correct?

Your rust is orange which means active rust.  I've seen two approaches, either oil it and leave it, stopping the advance of the rust; or use a deer antler (you can by these at pet shops) to scrape the active rust off.  The antler won't damage the nakago nor will it remove worthwhile patina.

 

 

[davidequis]

Thanks Bruce,

 

another question...

 

The fittings need care and the lacquered silk on handle is “crazed” (looks like mouse droppings)

 

clean and stabilise fittings?

polish fittings?

restore crazed lacquer?

 

aaand suggestions to clean blade? It has a very sticky grease on it - might be gun barrel grease. All guns were shipped to PNG full of the stuff.

My Pa’s troops received bren guns on the Kokoda track that couldn’t be used until they were cleaned...not much fun when they were in the thick of battle.

[Bruce Pennington]

Maybe someone will chime in with their favorite cleaning compound to remove 80 yr old grease.  If not, search the word "cosmoline" and you'll get a few pages where guys discussed its removal.

 

All the metal parts show active rust, so I'd definitely use a rag and some oil (choices vary - sewing matching oil and choji oil are most mentioned.  I just choji oil which is a mix specially made for Japanese blades of clove oil and mineral oil with a pleasant aroma mixed in).

 

Another search for leather protection will reveal several products guys like.