Oni tsuba, nara school early 19th century. Is this any good?

[waljamada]

I posted in WTB a while back looking for an oni tsuba.  I didnt get any bites there and since then have been hovering over the idea of purchasing this tsuba.  I will attach photos and the description used by the seller.  In hoping more honed tsuba eyes can tell me if this is a quality tsuba as the asking price is not cheap.  Is the description accurate and is it considered a finely made tsuba worth acquiring as a quality item?

[Babu]

It's a matter of taste Adam.

It does nothing for me, but if you like it then go for it.

Oni,dragons,tigers, warriors were a bit simplistic in the west of what floats our boats.

I mean how many people out there own a Koshirae of one of the above four themes.

What's the matter with the calmer scenes like birds in flight,animals or landscapes.

I'm sure that many warriors would sometimes prefer to reflect on something calming in the periods between battles

[Grey Doffin]

In my humbled opinion:  On this tsuba the design is partially on the seppa-dai.  There are 2 types of tsuba where this is expected: Very late Edo/ Meiji pieces made by top quality kinko artists who were working largely for a western, tourist audience because the Japanese market for swords and kodogu had dried up, and modern fakes.  This tsuba isn't one of those in the 1st category.

I know this is a great generalization and there are exceptions to every rule but, in this case I think I'm right; this is a stinker.

Grey

[waljamada]

Ok, thank you Adam and Grey.  I will pass on this tsuba.  My gut was telling me to pass hence sitting on it for months but I needed that more experienced eye to confirm so I appreciate the feedback. 

 

Adam, I do have a ghost/oni themed tsuka and the tsuba has a nature theme.  The tsuba that is there works and I like it but if I found the right oni/ghost themed tsuba I would be pretty tempted to change it out keeping the one it has as a display/decoration item.  I attached the photo of the one that came with it and its oni fittings.

 

Also does anyone know what that menuki is that looks like an anchor?

 

The tsuba I posted definitely seemed to have some good etching and I do like what was done with the surface of the tsuba but I did feel it had more of an "art" therefore touristy piece vibe that didn't match the other used "functional" tsuba I've seen.

 

The sword was originally bought by my brother and I havent owned it that long so I'll continue to let it be and see if it grows on me.   He bought it after me getting into nihonto and had a form of buyers remorse so I bought it off him.  Its kind of my fault.

 

Adam, off your thoughts ill view it as a peaceful/lighter scene on top darker forces.  Kinda like that quote "Sometimes you've got to go through hell to get to heaven".  It always helps me love something when I apply a meaning/symbolism to it. 

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Your Tsuba is on upside down !

Ian Brooks

[Babu]

Dare I say it Adam without offending the masses. Your fuchigashira is modern repro from what I can see.If its not I apologize but it certainly is one I would have passed on. It's not high level workmanship that's a given.

The menuki also seem to fit this vein.

On a personal note I greatly dislike leather Ito and black Samegawa.

 

Whilst most of your stuff I like, this one sadly is not for me. It's got no "history" or presence to it . It's all too new.

The tsuba being tetsu and mid Edo is certainly a functional item. I don't think it's specifically for the tourist trade. Or are you talking the copper tsuba which is for the tourist?

Ian's very right, fancy side to the public for display so always to the tsuka.

[waljamada]

Ha, thanks Ian I will flip it and make it right.

 

Adam, the copper one felt artsy therefore touristy.  Yeah, the tsuka and saya were recently made  which was stated in the ad (the habaki might be new as well).  The ad for the sword when my brother bought it also said all fittings were antique (but I think the unofficial rule is to make something an antique it only has to be 50 years old?). 

 

Then again it also said it was signed but the papers say mumei but attributed to Kasyu Iehira.  I actually posted the sword on the forum asking about NBTHK papers after my brother bought it.  I'm ok with the look of leather ito and black samegawa and it does have a very different appearence than anything else I have.  It does almost feel like that copper tsuba in that its stylized/artsy therefore touristy.  Its the sword I have the least feelings towards that I now own but to a normie not into nihonto it will get some oos and ahhs..  Ill attach the description from the listing and some things the seller said about who did the saya and tsuka.

 

So beyond all that I've never been quite sure what was here with the blade.

[waljamada]

While fixing my tsuba to be the right way up I found this mei on the fuchi.  Might give some answers on age perhaps?

[waljamada]

On 8/29/2020 at 2:02 AM, Ian B3HR2UH said:

Your Tsuba is on upside down !

Ian Brooks

 

Ian, just to confirm, is it always fancy side up with tsubas while in the saya?

[Geraint]

Hi Adam.

 

Yes, that's the way.  The chief decorative element should face out when the sword is worn in the obi.  This seems to be a nice blade that has been mounted very recently, the seller was up front with that.

I am sure most of us would suggest getting a decent shirasaya made for the blade.   The mounts are a distraction and a good example of why one should always be careful of the urge to fix up some koshirae for a blade.  Unless you are prepared to go the whole way, buy good quality and appropriate fittings and spend the money on good craftsmanship, you tend to end up with something that just doesn't feel right. 

 

Enjoy the sword.

 

All the best.

[Babu]

Adam I'm going to get a shirasaya made and a new Koshirae for one of mine.

It's similar to yours but had genuine period fittings but Mino goto.

The fittings I will be using might be the ones I have by Tsuchiya yasuchika.

These alone value at £2000. For the fuchigashira,kogai and kozuka at my cost..

I also have a few others so have the luxury of choice.

I am also commissioning tsukamaki to do a very intricate jabarra Ito.

I think once the final tally comes in it will be around £2500 including a new saya

Add £500 for a new shirasaya.

Other than my enjoyment I doubt I will see a return on my money.

[parfaitelumiere]

blade and habaki are ok, fuchi, kashira, menuki, and seppa are terrible modern stuff.
Depending on the saya quality, maybe you can keep the tsuba, saya and tsuka, if the quality is ok (wood only)
You remove same, fuchi, kashira, menuki and ito.
Then,find nice fuchi-kashira-menuki, antique ones, put them on the existing tsuka, if actual tsuka is bad, make a new one.
After that you make new seppa from brass sheet, seppa are easy to make, you can also try to find antique seppa, don't use existing modern seppa.
What is a shame is I sold some very good fuchi and kashira, katana sized, with water bufflo theme, very good quality antique set, and saw recently a nice water buffalo antique menuki set for sale, you should have built a water buffalo themed koshirae.
but just the menuki could be good, and simple design fuchi-kashira, would be ok, adding nice samekawa, a 5000 or 8000 JPY quality from namikawa, with good polish and weathering, and final nice tsukamaki using silk ito.

[waljamada]

I may revisit this sword down the line.  Right now the tsuka and the saya were specifically made for this blade commissioned by the previous owner who obviously had a taste/vision for it.  The tsuka is made of wood and actually feels quite good quality to be honest.  Its tight, real rayskin, the leather ito wrap looks consistent/pretty competently done and feels really great in the hand/grip.   Both saya and tsuka seem to house the blade well and keep it safe but I will look into having a shirasaya made.

 

Bummer to find out the menuki, fuchi and kashira are all just modern blah pieces.  Hoped for a some age on them but shyoganai...(one of my favorite Japanese phrases, means "can't be helped, it is what it is type meaning). 

 

I bought it off my brother for what he paid which was $1,800.00 and don't want to invest more in it at this moment (except maybe a shirasaya).   I really appreciate though all of your advice and I screenshotted it all and emailed it to myself under the topic "When you're ready for the Iehira". 

 

Having this sword has made me notice that non-nihonto collectors that have seen my collection are most impressed by this one and a flashy tachi I have.  They think the older fittings are neat but this one is "cool".  Flash impresses the masses.  Then I try to tell them the history of some of the other swords and I can see it in their eyes that they just want me to stop talking and let them hold it or just move on with our day. 

 

I need a real life nihonto friend. 

 

Thank God for this board though and I do promise to keep learning and actually be able to contribute with some knowledgeable weight down the line.

[parfaitelumiere]

I will work with a french modern iaito and shinken seller, and I understand your meaning, he visited me, I told him my thoughts, wnat can be made and how, to improve the actual stuff make something decent for decent price, he show me the modern fittings he can get for about 600$ a set( modern Japanese tsuba menuki f/K) these were just horrible, modern cast, undersized for katana, the saya was modern egg shaped chinese stuff with  full black painted ray skin, fat, ugly, but really appealing for those who don't know, then I show him some real fittings, easy to see he doesn't know anything about real swords.It's funny it seems there is a kind of two words, the praticers one one side and nihonto collectors on other side.