RJT Kanetoshi

[Mortis]

Would anyone be so kind as to post a/the page from John Scott Slough’s book showing the information and oshigata for the sword smith Kanetoshi?

 

Shoka Kanetoshi or Murayama Kanetoshi -  I’m guessing Murayama based on the “flamboyant” choji hamon and also this blade has some very nice hada (which I understood as somewhat rare in Gendai blades - please correct me if I’m wrong.) There are several examples of a Kanetoshi mei online, but all are significantly longer.  I was unable to find an example in nijimei.  The nengo looks rather “sloppy.” My shot at translation was Sho-Wa-Ju-Roku-Nen, but I can’t figure out what that correlates to.  
 

Another question would be regarding the green ito. It seems that gunto with green ito are few and far between.  Am I wrong about that?

 

As always, thank you so much.  I am grateful for your expertise and help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[b.hennick]

Your font is black and on the dark background (dark mode) I cannot read what you wrote. Please use the usual colour so that your posts are readable.

[SteveM]

Year is Showa 18. 

[Mortis]

Thank you for your replies.

 

-Mr. Hennick.  I wonder if this is a glitch with the new format?  The font color is always black, right?  I’m not sure how to make it visible for both the light and dark background formats. Before I post something like this, I usually write it out in another document, copy, and paste it.  Possibly  that is why.  If you are aware of how to accomplish that, please do not hesitate to tell me. I’m here to learn.  Maybe you could switch back to the light mode real quick to be able to read it.  

 

-SteveM.  This is not the first time that you’ve helped me with a translation.  I thank you. Please forgive my ignorance. Is that what it reads literally, Showa 18?  If not, would you be so kind to break it down by each individual kanji?  
 

[SteveM]

昭 - Shō

和 - wa

十 - jū

八 - hachi

年 - nen

 

As usual, these kanji are written in a cursive shorthand, which can look quite different from the printed form or most fonts used in computers. Especially the last word, nen, looks so abbreviated it scarcely resembles the printed version. 

[Bruce Pennington]

And Showa 18 means 1943.  (Showa era 1926 + 18 -1 = 1943.  You always subtract 1 with each of these dates).

 

Maybe you can give a close-up of the ito?  It looks brown in the picture you posted.

 

Hopefully one of the guys who research smiths can give you the page you're looking for.

[IJASWORDS]

Welcome to the (Murayama) Kanetoshi fan club! Here is a July 1944, in RS mounts, with RJT star stamp. The Hamon is indeed flamboyant.   

[PNSSHOGUN]

Another example just listed, this doesn't seem to have been "polished" like many form Showa22: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-WWll-Army-officers-sword-in-mountings-Gendaito-Kanetos-tassel/353171815551?hash=item523aae3c7f:g:yq0AAOSwOhVfOIyQ

[dwmc]

Dave M.

[Mortis]

Steve -  Thanks for breaking it down like that.  I would say that the mei and nengo on this blade does not look like his finest work. 
 

Bruce - Here’s a photo of the tsuka.  The koshirae looks like a pretty fancy rig. Full set of graduated seppa, thick tuba, gold colored menuki, the tsuka/same is a full wrap that is reinforced with a metal band at the top (never saw that before.)  If only the metal saya didn’t have so much paint loss. 
 

Neil -  Nice!  Nicely signed. Based on the hamon and hada on the blade that I have, Kanetoshi looks like a smith to seek out to collect.  Plenty to look at.  I think it was Brandon Reeder that had a nice looking Kanetoshi on eBay a few months back that “had a slight bend”, but the hamon was very interesting.  I took a hard look at that sword.
 

John -  That sword has less seppa than the one that I have, but the rest of the koshirae looks very similar.  I wonder if there’s a correlation to Kanetoshi and the koshirae maker that outfitted blades that he made.  Green ito, etc.

Dave - Thank’s for posting those.

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Yes, I see it now!  I have seen a couple that color, but they are the exception.  Ohmura shows one that color, and his site sort of specializes in showing high-class examples of gunto.  Nice to see yours was actually in use, as there is tell-tale hand oils imbedded in the underside of the tsuka.  Shows that the gunto didn't just sit in a dorm room corner.

[Bruno]

On 8/16/2020 at 7:51 AM, IJASWORDS said:

Welcome to the (Murayama) Kanetoshi fan club! Here is a July 1944, in RS mounts, with RJT star stamp. The Hamon is indeed flamboyant.   

Hey Neil,

 

Out of curiosity, may you tell me if your scabbard has a chuho button on the kuchigane, or only on the fuchi?

 

Thanks

[IJASWORDS]

Bruno, this Kanetoshi has only a single button, and none on the kuchigane. 

The Saya is salmon pink painted steel, the tsuka is not the premium wrapped and lacquered variety. 

Every component has matching numbers, that matches the painted assembly number on the nakago. 

One metal screw and one bamboo mekugi. 

If you want anything photographed, happy to oblige. 

[Bruno]

11 hours ago, IJASWORDS said:

Bruno, this Kanetoshi has only a single button, and none on the kuchigane. 

The Saya is salmon pink painted steel, the tsuka is not the premium wrapped and lacquered variety. 

Every component has matching numbers, that matches the painted assembly number on the nakago. 

One metal screw and one bamboo mekugi. 

If you want anything photographed, happy to oblige. 

Thanks Neil! Quite happy to see a star stamped gendaito without the double chuho buttons. I am looking for a scabbard for my RJT Masamichi, and the single button version is much easier to find.

 

When you wrote scabbard color is salmon pink, you meant it is a different color than the usual light brown one we used to see? 

 

I would be glad to have detailed photos of each parts if you don't mind. Tsuka, scabbard color , kuchigane, fuchi, menuki, ito etc... No need to rush, take your time.

 

BTW, I am aware that a matching scabbard is hard to find, but with double buttons it is almost impossible.

[jesup]

(Murayama) Kanetoshi was very sloppy with his signature.   Took me a while to read mine (Noshu Ju Kanetoshi)

 

He had seriously active hamons and quite good hada; my Kanetoshi has periodic whorls of mokume spaced along the hamon line (which is a flamboyant crab-claw choji).   Nie and Nioi.   NTHK Shinsa at Long Island (1997?); 70 pts from Yoshikawa-sensei.   Shingunto mounts, diplomatic (bullion) tassle - Seriously high-class gendaito, one of the very best I've ever seen.   Bruce Kowalski (yeah, I know, but he was the top person in the area, and a friend of Yoshikawa) told me Yoshikawa had known Murayama Kanetoshi when he was young.  There was one gendai blade there which got a better rating, if I recall, but it had a LONG signature that is was a special order by a famous general (admiral?) IIRC.

 

I believe he used takanoha yasurimei (mine certainly does, and the ones above seem to also).

 

There's one for sale right now at the Samurai  Museum site: https://www.samuraimuseum.jp/shop/product/modern-authentic-Japanese-sword-showato-katana-signed-by-noshu-jyu-kanetoshi/

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Randell, would love some pictures!

[jesup]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Hw3sjbKPiYX6m9id6

Good pictures of the hada an features of the hamon; you should be able to see nie, some kinsuji, etc.   Note the elongated ovals of hada (mokume) that appear regularly along the blade under the temper line (quite visible in a few photos).  You can also see nie following the hada lines in places like that.

The bullion tassel is a diplomatic tassel.  Looks to be shortly pre-war or early war; custom order.  Note also the punch test mark.

[Bruce Pennington]

52 minutes ago, jesup said:

punch test mark.

Randell,

You’re the first guy I’ve seen with a name fir those dots.  Can you explain further?

[reeder]

Nice Kanetoshi. I had one with the same activity. Offered it here a while back for $1400 or so, no interest in it at all. 🤷‍♂️ Generally, the wartime Seki smiths are not highly regarded. 

[David Flynn]

Seki Gendaito, are not highly regarded, only because  Chris Bowen doesn't like them and has stated many times, that they  (Generally) aren't the best quality.    This is only "His" opinion and not Shared by the various sword societies.   Chris has shown many times his various Bias and prejudice.   His bias is towards Tokyo smiths and generally doesn't like many others.

This is not "Heresay".   One can check all his posts on the NMB.

[vajo]

This is a fantastic gendaito Randall  

 

Impressive work and i love your pictures. Thanks for showing.

 

[jesup]

On 4/19/2021 at 12:28 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Randell,

You’re the first guy I’ve seen with a name fir those dots.  Can you explain further?

 

Some sort of acceptance test, from what I've read - basically a punch to test hardness.

[jesup]

On 4/21/2021 at 1:37 AM, David Flynn said:

Seki Gendaito, are not highly regarded, only because  Chris Bowen doesn't like them and has stated many times, that they  (Generally) aren't the best quality.    This is only "His" opinion and not Shared by the various sword societies

 

I wouldn't know about Chris's opinions; overall he knows more than I do I'm sure.  I do know that this blade papered very well in the NHTK Shinsa at Long Island in ~98(?); 70 pts (which I believe is roughly equivalent to Tokubetsu (green) papers), and the 2nd or 3rd highest gendaito papers I've personally seen (I'm sure there are others, of course).   The others were a custom-order tanto for a Naval Admiral IIRC, and I think a Yasukuni blade.   It was a while ago, so details are  bit fuzzy.   I was told Yoshikawa-sensei liked the blade (by Bruce Kowalski, who was friends with him).

 

He was certainly one of the better Seki gendai smiths, and this looks like one of his better works (perhaps related to the diplomatic tassel - I do wonder who ordered it).

 

I bought it from Lou Kanarek (and a naginata whose koshirai got 73(?) pts at the same shinsa - mother-of-pearl pole and saya of snow leopard fur from the 1700's); is he still around?  I'd guess he was in his 60's, perhaps 70 back then.   The naginata blade got 60 pts, Echizen (shimosaka?) work, mumei.

[Brian]

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/20812-dr-kanarek/

 

[jesup]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:50 PM, Brian said:

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/20812-dr-kanarek/

 

 

Thanks, I was afraid that might be the case - I last saw him over 20 years ago.   Nice guy.   Last time I saw him he got to look at my Heianjo Nagayoshi Omi-yari (without my telling him what it was) along with a couple of other so-so blades - he liked it and said "keep that one, get rid of the others" (and then I told him what it was).  Then he asked (againn) if I wanted to sell him back the Kanetoshi...  I think he was honestly a bit surprised when it papered so well at the Shinsa.