Sugata help.

[Babu]

Hi I'm wondering if anyone can give an indication of period based on the sugata of this sword. 

It's 70cm approx. 

It's hamon is obscured but I can see a midare based on suguba. 

Thank you Adam 

[16k]

I would go with early Muromachi, but wait for better experts.

[Brian]

Give us your thoughts Adam?

[Babu]

I'm not entirely sure, which is why I posted it. I know what it's trying to be but something about it doesn't feel right for its period .

I promise it's not a trick question.

So many could date by sugata alone the rusty sword for Steve, I thought you might with this one as well.

It might be better to say ..  has anyone had any experience if welded nakago and perhaps visual reference?

Not the silly attempts more the "hard to tell " jobs.?

 

[16k]

Do you have closer pictures of the nakago? From afar, it looks natural.

[Brian]

Your nakago, machi etc are far too dark on my screen and just a blur. Plus the angle is not easy to get a good idea of. It doesn't give any "hmm...interesting" feeling to me, like something outstanding. Could be wrong...frequently am.

[Babu]

Try this

[Kawa]

At first glance the shape looked like sue-Bizen but the Nakago looks reshaped and extended for that period, the Mekugi ana is also placed in the wrong area for sue Bizen (pictures could be better). Muromachi maybe?

[Babu]

The suggestion is MAS366 so Soshu Masakiyo.

Agreed Muromachi is what it's trying to be.

I don't know what that crack indicates on the nakago though . Has it been welded?

The pockmarks suggest it might have.

[16k]

Hoooo! I don’t like that Nakago indeed!

[Babu]

No, me neither JP. I want examples (images ) of welded nakago to compare.

It may just be a flaw under the habaki it lines up but it's certainly ugly 

[Kawa]

Any better pictures? Soshu seems interesting, the Kissaki seems off for that, pics please?  

[Babu]

I'll try tomorrow in daylight Ray. 

Might get a little better but restricted to my phone for images. 

You won't see much if anything of the detail as it's in need of a polish. Even I cannot see much beyond the Nakahodo and monouchi. 

 

[16k]

Adam, here are some suspect nakago. The first one is identified as welded. The others were in past threads and were suspect.

[Babu]

Thanks JP.

Really difficult call.

Number two looks like it's corroded along the line of the base of the habaki.

Much like mine in that respect.

Three is a very hard call.

I'm inclined to think this is natural corrosion. Just follows an unusual line.

Thank you for the references.

 

[nektoalex]

 

 

one of the welding options

 

[Brian]

I vote welded. 

[ChrisW]

If you have access to someone who is a metallurgist with a lab (scarce I know), they could take a small sample of metal from both sides of the suspected weld and see if the composition matches up. If it doesn't, its obviously a weld. If it does, then it possibly may still be or not. Either way, I bet a good metallurgist could tell you if it was welded based on the hardness of the metal in that area. Welds have a different hardness than the metal around them usually. (Usually softer so the weld can flex and not break).

[16k]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

I vote welded. 

So do I.

[Babu]

I am returning it Monday I'm in agreement with you. Or at the very least it throws suspicion. 

Thank you all. 

You have been a great help.