Pampas Grass menuki and Shi shi menuki.

[shan]

Hi All,

I have these 2 sets menuki that i know nothing about but i was trawling the internet the other day and i found this on a website about Goto menuki.

Do you think that these may be of a fair quality or are they just junk?

This is the description of the listing.

 

"Pair Menuki, Pampas Grass Design, 17th C.

DESCRIPTION: A pair of Japanese menuki, the yamagane base (unrefined copper) with gilt details depicting suski, or Japanese silver-toned pampas grass. Japanese poets have long referred to the graceful susuki; at its mention, we know the poem’s season is always “autumn.” On one menuki we see a nobleman’s cap, which is probably a poetic reference. These menuki represent good Goto work dating from 1600 – 1650, with some wear to gilding. DIMENSIONS: Each approximately 1 ½” long (3.7 cm)."

.jpg]

 

 

The other set are shi shi and again are probably rubbish as well, but i would love anothers opinion.

 

 

 

What do you think?

 

Also this fuchi that looks nice and opinions are welcomed.

 

 

 

Regards

Shan

[Bungo]

my shi shi menuki on sale on e-bay is way better than the ones you shown.

The fuchi is not good, the menuki is ok if you need them for matching motif on re-mount project.

 

http://www.esnips.com/web/menuki?docsPage=1#files

not saying they are " juyo level " but I do believe most of them meet certain standard. You should start at least at that level.

 

 

milt

[shan]

Hi Milt,

Whats the ebay number of the sale?

the link didn`t take me to these shi shi menuki you mentioned.

 

regards

Shan

[Thierry BERNARD]

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/muramasa-iii

[Henry Wilson]

To be honest I think they are junk. Compare the pampas grass on this:

 

http://world.choshuya.co.jp/sale/tousou ... /index.htm

[shan]

Hi,

Well thanks for the input,so my Shi shi are not as good as Milts (cant see any difference myself Milt,In fact i think mine are more complex on the second menuki)

The Pampas grass are also Junk.

Not really getting any better yet am i.

Steep learning curve here, as i thought that both sets were not that bad at all.

I honestly cannot see any real difference between the shi shi you have Milt and my ones.What am i missing here?

Henry,is that a goto Kozuka you have shown me? Very nice and point taken.

 

How about these? any closer to good quality?

 

 

 

 

regards

Shan

[Bungo]

may be condition ? or lack of photographic skill thereof ?

p.s. listed at 185, what do you expect ?

milt

[Brian]

I think the 2 new fuchi you posted are much better than the first fittings. Not masterpieces, but good items. I would be very interested in the school of the fuchi with silver flowers myself, as I was looking at a very nice tsuba yesterday in shakudo nanako with these same high relief silver flowers, although a bit better than your fuchi. Nanako was well done, and the flowers were quite high relief. Was a very nice tsuba, but I passed on it at around $1000.

The second fuchi is also decent work. Is it shakudo or iron? I would think non-magnetic shakudo?

 

Brian

[shan]

Hi Brian,

The first is a fuchi and its quite well done but ruined by the complete lack of care shown in the application of the gold.All that effort and skill then to ruin it with a bit of slapdash application of a painted colour.

The second item is a Koiguchi decoration and did come from a decent set of mounts that were broken.Its got even more detail when magnified as all the flowers are bunches of smaller flowers.

I have also listed a set of fittings for a saya under the "are these mon or zodiac signs" post.

I think these were shakudo over Brass or copper?strange markings on them though and not in great condition.

Might also be iron though(i don`t want to clean them up so don`t know for sure and i have no magnet)

Regards

shan

[Henry Wilson]

GOTO EIJO was the 6th in the GOTO line and worked from1577 to 1617. He is said to have favoured designs of Noh Kyogen and weaponry.

 

This is not top secret info (I know so it is fairly fundamental) and don't want to sound like a broken record but the following info is in the spoiler to save those who know from what is coming

 

 

I recommend these books

 

"Tsuba, An Aesthetic Study", by Kazutaro Torigoye and Robert Haynes, from the "Tsuba Geijutsu-Ko" of Kazutaro Torigoye, 300 pp.

bullet $25.00 US - Includes domestic standard shipping.

bullet $35.00 US - Includes international standard shipping.

 

Second book down on this link

 

http://www.ncjsc.org/pubs_4_sale.htm

 

"Nihonto Koza volume 6"

 

Harry Watson is a very nice guy and easy to get on with

 

http://www.afuresearch.com/kodogu1.htm

 

I think these were shakudo over Brass or copper?

 

I am not sure anyone did this. Shakudo can look brassy coppery if not looked after. A thorough read of the above books should make this apparent I think.

 

[Bungo]

Henry,

are you saying Shan's grass menyki are by GOTO EIJO ?

 

milt

[shan]

[Henry Wilson]

Henry,is that a goto Kozuka you have shown me? Very nice and point taken.

 

Henry,

are you saying Shan's grass menyki are by GOTO EIJO ?

 

milt

 

 

Buy some books. for being a Bungo

[shan]

[Brian]

Nothing here is Goto besides the linked images. Not sure how Henry's post gets misread like this.

Any research into Goto will make this very clear. Read what Henry wrote, and forget about stumbling on a Goto piece accidentally. They are very obvious when seen.

 

Brian

[shan]

Just playing Brian...

I will know a goto when i see it. (there was a kashira on ebay the other day with a shi shi that was superb quality and had been turned into a piece of jewellery,I bid on it but as as single oddment it was beautiful but too expensive.)

regards

Shan