A rice glue question...

[16k]

Hi guys,

 

So I have this split up Shirasaya. So far, I’m using the paper bands method to hold it but today, I’ve decided to make rice glue and repair it. I have the recipe and ingredients covered, but have three questions for those Who’ve already done it:

 

- what tool do you use to spread it? A paintbrush I suppose or your fingers? Any tips there?

- how long before it is dry and I can put the sword back in?

- where do you store the sword in the ,meantime, knowing the Shirasaya is the only saya I have for it?

 

Thank you for your help,
 

Cheers,

 

JP

 

[ChrisW]

I'd wrap the sword in soft cotton batting (like the kind used for quilting) but I could be doing it wrong.

[16k]

Thanks, that’s a definite idea. How about leaving the blade bare on a kake and soak it in oil?

[Dave R]

 I wrap the blade in newspaper, which is something I have seen done by a Japanese professional while they were working on a new habaki. I have also used cardboard tubes from the centre of a roll of cloth as a transport safety aid on a bare blade.

 

 As for rice glue, make it up as a paste rather than a liquid and apply with a stiff brush. It is an air drying glue, so will need a few days before you can be confident it is dry. I use it a fair bit, and  I wait for a week or more, rather than take any risk of rust on a blade.

[16k]

Thank you Dave, that’s awesome. Any idea how it takes to dry up?

[Dave R]

 When repairing some saya I have seen clear evidence of dribbles of rice glue inside, so it had to be fairly moist when used.

[16k]

Thank you, I’ll pay a lot of attention. When I look at the two halves, looks like very little glues was applied. I think I’m going to try and respect the same spots, taking into account that it will probably spread when pressure is applied.

[Dave R]

Dribble!

[Mark C]

😲

 

Wow Dave, Thats a lot of dribble, You must feel it as the blade is put into the saya?

 

Regards

[Dave R]

6 minutes ago, Mark C said:

😲

 

Wow Dave, Thats a lot of dribble, You must feel it as the blade is put into the saya?

 

Regards

 

 Nope,  it was only detectabe after the partialy split saya was opened up for regluing, and was then scraped out with craft blades and small jewellers files. NB, never ever let abrasive papers or cloths anywhere near saya or tsuka,  use blades and files only.

[b.hennick]

2 hours ago, Dave R said:

have also used cardboard tubes from the centre of a roll of cloth as a transport safety aid on a bare blade

I get a piece of wood slightly shorter than the tube. I wrap the blade in Saranwrap and tape it to the piece of wood. Then pack the word and blade in the tube. Pad the tube ends after doing empty space with bubble wrap or foam. Seal the end closed. 

[16k]

7 hours ago, Dave R said:

Dribble!

wow, that was done by a pig!  That’s really surprising. Maybe it was done later on?

[16k]

Thank you guys for your input. Glue was made today. Tomorrow I’ll try it. Thanks again.

[Babu]

Let me know how you get on and your recipe.... I've a shirasaya to do and was contemplating wood glue. Must be a reason why you didn't go this way, so excuse my ignorance. 

[16k]

Hey Adam, here’s the recipe:

 

Now, I’ve found an old thread saying that moistening the old glue with hot water and pressing the two halves together worked by reactivating the old glue. I’ll try that first if there is enough left. Otherwise, I’ll use my glue. 
 

one thing I’ll add to the video is don’t hesitate to add a little more water to thin the glue because it is really thick and you don’t want chunks in it.

[Babu]

I've tried the reactivation technique JP. 

Not enough residual glue to make an effective bond. 

I've got some very strong yellow elastic bands that I use to really hold the two parts together. When the blade is reinserted into the tsuka the outward pressure popped the reactivated glue. 

I think a careful application of thick glue to outer edges only then press parts together so glue spreads inwards less but outward more, but not too much. Wet cloth to wipe away the over press glue straight away. 

Leave for at least 7 days under the tight pressure. 

After all this is just starch based. 

[b.hennick]

I found that pallet tape often for sale at the dollar store is a clear plastic like Saran wrap as it sticks to itself. You can wrap it quite tightly to hold a saya together. I use it when packing for a sword show. It does not leave a residue. 

 

[Dave R]

3 hours ago, 16k said:

wow, that was done by a pig!  That’s really surprising. Maybe it was done later on?

 

 Once a saya is closed, how would you tell it had dribbled, if it had been detectable I have no doubt it would have been corrected. I have seen some real surprises in old dismantled koshirae, it's why I buy them when cheap enough. I learn a lot from them.

[16k]

Excellent idea, Barry, thank you! 
 

you're probably right, Dave. Still they really applied too much and it was very liquid. Bah! Who looks into saya anyway! 🤣

[Ken-Hawaii]

Actually, JP, a cheap borescope is ideal for checking inside saya & shirasaya: https://www.amazon.com/Inspection-Fantronics-Waterproof-Borescope-Adjustable/dp/B071HYRPND/

 

It's saved me time & money, several times.

[Dave R]

11 hours ago, Ken-Hawaii said:

Actually, JP, a cheap borescope is ideal for checking inside saya & shirasaya: https://www.amazon.com/Inspection-Fantronics-Waterproof-Borescope-Adjustable/dp/B071HYRPND/

 

It's saved me time & money, several times.

 

 I think I can say with confidence that such was not available in Edo period Japan.

[16k]

Operation glue carried out! Worked perfectly well. Dried in about half an hour but I plan to leave the blade out until tomorrow.

[Dave R]

1 hour ago, 16k said:

Operation glue carried out! Worked perfectly well. Dried in about half an hour but I plan to leave the blade out until tomorrow.

 

For safeties sake I would leave it a lot longer. What I would do, is try the blade in the saya for a minute or so, then remove, wipe and oil and repeat for a few days. .... Better safe than sorry.

[16k]

15 hours ago, Ken-Hawaii said:

Actually, JP, a cheap borescope is ideal for checking inside saya & shirasaya: https://www.amazon.com/Inspection-Fantronics-Waterproof-Borescope-Adjustable/dp/B071HYRPND/

 

It's saved me time & money, several times.

that is a great idea. I’ll see if Amazon.fr has one. Thank you.

 

22 minutes ago, Dave R said:

 

For safeties sake I would leave it a lot longer. What I would do, is try the blade in the saya for a minute or so, then remove, wipe and oil and repeat for a few days. .... Better safe than sorry.

maybe you’re right Dave, but I don’t know if if did it differently from the ones you showed but my glue was rather thick and there’s no way it could have dripped as the ones in your examples. I applied it very thin with a very small paintbrush (01), smoothed the areas with my wet finger to remover potential lumps and joined the two halves that I pressed with the paper bands method. After half an hour, out of curiosity, I tried prying them open to no avail. 
Also, before working, I used a piece of wood to stir the glue (and add a few drops of clove oil), and left a big lump of glue on it afterward to check the drying process. It been 4 hours+ now and it is hard as hell, thoroughly dry.

I've tried to put the sword in. No residue and good fit.

Yet, you are right, there may still be moisture in and better safe than sorry, so I’ll wait one or two more days. Thanks.

Yet y