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Stamp Survey

Bruce Pennington
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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Showa Stamp

 

Of the vast number of blades we've seen with the Showa stamp, I only have 3 - THREE - with confirmed dates: 1940-Kaneuji, Feb 1940 Kanetako, and 1941-Kanemichi. The rest (16 of them) I could not find dates on the posts where they were discussed. If you have blades, or know of links to them, with Showa stamped blades that are dated, please add them to this thread for my records. I would like the smith name too, if known.

 

Seki

 

I have dated blades in every year from 1941 to 1945. Ohmura has 1 or 2 dated 1938, but I don't have anything prior to 1941, so if you know of examples of dated blades with the Seki stamp prior to 1941, please post.

 

Both Seki & Gifu

 

I only have 2 examples: 1944-Kanehide and 1945-Hiromitsu. If you have examples of blades with both stamps, please post.

 

Gifu

 

I have 4: Nov 1943-Hiromitsu, Dec 1943-Unknown, Oct 1944-Uknown, and Feb 1945-Ichishige. I could use more data on Gifu stamped blades, with smith and date.

 

Thanks in advance!

Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Neil,

From the top - Seki, 特 = TOKU, and Unknown. I haven't found anyone who recognized that bottom one, probably because there isn't enough detail to make out the strokes. Also, I don't know the meaning of the Toku, so if someone does, please let us know!

 

If yours is a June 1944, I have it in my data already. If another month, please let me know!

Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Toku means 'special' as in tokubetsu 'especially important'.

Thanks George! Another mystery, because now we wonder "Especially important" order for important person, or especially important work because of the quality of the work? As these are inspector marks, I would guess the latter.

 

You don't happen to recognize that last mark do you?

post-3487-0-69980500-1595773153_thumb.jpg

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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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I thought you had already covered this topic before?

 

"Informations About The Rjt"

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/23887-informations-about-the-rjt/?do=findComment&comment=314306

Kiipu,

My thread has been sidetracked from the beginning. I am not searching for the meaning of the Sho, Seki, and Gifu stamps, nor even their history. I am trying to gather confirmed, dated blades with these stamps to document the windows of years each was used.

 

Without dated blades, all we have is the word of a guy, who is quoting an author, who asked a surviving swordsmith. With hard data/evidence, we can either confirm the stories, or discover something new they didn't know.

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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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While my data-base is still small, it is interesting to note the practice of dating the blades seemed to have increased over time, if these stamped blades are any indicator.

 

Showa

1940,1940,1941, and 15 blades w/o dates

 

Seki

1941, three 1942, three 1944, two 1945, 5 blades w/o dates

 

Seki/Gifu

1944, 1945

 

Gifu

two 1943, 1944, two 1945

 

Saka (added to survey)

1945

 

Admittedly, many of the blades without dates are from my search through the threads to gather data, and the posts they came from simply didn't show or discuss dates. So, many of them may in fact have been dated. but we know the Army Sword Department took authority over all sword production in 1942 (maybe late 1941). This might explain the increase in observed dates on blades. Could it be that the Army required the dates on blades? Yet another unknown.

Kiipu Grand Master

Kiipu

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So, many of them may in fact have been dated. but we know the Army Sword Department took authority over all sword production in 1942 (maybe late 1941). This might explain the increase in observed dates on blades. Could it be that the Army required the dates on blades? Yet another unknown.

 

The army created the Officer Military Sword Inspection Committee 将校軍刀鑑査委員会 in February 1942. They bought old swords from civilians, setup the RJT, and put the arsenals to work on making machine made officer's swords.  Trotter-sensei translated or arranged to have translated, the specifications for the RJT swords and it clearly states the blades were to be dated.

 

See "WW2 Rikugun Jumei Tosho Documents" in the Articles and Documents forum.

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Ooitame Mentor

Ooitame

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I have studied RJT Nagamitsu, there are more than a few blades that are not dated. I have a papered one with katakana and order numbers, Saka inspectors mark, mei, but no date.

Kiipu Grand Master

Kiipu

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I have studied RJT Nagamitsu, there are more than a few blades that are not dated. I have a papered one with katakana and order numbers, Saka inspectors mark, mei, but no date.

 

But does your Nagamitsu have a Star stamp?

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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Thanks to Niel (IJASWORDS), we now have a stamp survey done by Malcolm E. Cox, published in a JSSUS newsletter. Master Cox was fortunate enough to survey 425 blades! Half, 213, had stamps. I've added his data to mine and made the following chart.

 

post-3487-0-89074200-1596332253_thumb.jpg

 

The majority of blades in my survey are signed, but like the Cox survey, most are not dated. Cox didn't discuss smith mei in his report.

 

You can see a small overlap in years 1940/1941 with the Showa and Seki stamps, but the real switch came in 1942 when the Army took centralized control of all sword production, ending the Showa stamp (except the rare 1945 blades!) and moving to the Seki stamp, followed by the Gifu stamp.

 

I've just added the Saka stamp and only have 1 example. Since my interest began in blade stamps, I haven't seen many Saka stamps, but it surprises me as we have recently learned that the Osaka Arsenal was making more blades than Mantetsu as seen in this translated chart from 1944 blade production.

post-3487-0-03799500-1596332150_thumb.jpg

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David Flynn Grand Master

David Flynn

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I have been under the impression that, the Saka stamp was just an acceptance stamp and and not a manufacturing arsenal.    Even Gassan swords have been seen with the Saka stamp.   Also, I believe the Saka Stamp, was only on  the Nakago Mune.

Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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David,

According to this 1943 War Ministry General Order - "Rikugunshō 陸軍省 [War Ministry]. Rikugun Heiki Gyōsei Honbu 陸軍兵器行政本部 [Army Ordnance Administration Headquarters]. Ken’in oyobi hyōshiki kitei 檢印及標識規定 [Regulations for Inspection Marks and Signs]. General Order 2389. 19 October 1943." - the stamp is of the "阪 saka 大阪陸軍造兵廠監督課 Ōsaka Army Arsenal Supervisory Section"

 

The debate on "acceptance", which would include gendaito/nihonto, vs a mark of non-traditionally made blade is unresolved. I suspect the answer is "BOTH". Like your Gassan example, there are others who know of Showa stamped blades that were papered at shinsa (don't know if the stamp was removed).

 

We can safely say it was an "inspection" stamp. Now if the inspector at Osaka Army Arsenal accepted a donated nihonto (or part of the purchase program) and put his mark on the nakago mune, it's certainly possible. It would be the only way to explain such examples. The stamps on RJT blades seem to be there for the same purpose, for we know Star-stamped RJT blades were gendaito.

 

I've just started my search for Saka stamps, so I'll update what I find as to type of blade, and location on the nakago.

Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Posting the survey worksheet for those interested.  Getting more Saka blades (4) and 3 of them are Nagamitsu.  They are all in Rinji-seishiki fittings.  Only the Sadakatsu is star-stamped.  One Nagamitsu is in double-release button saya.

 

I now have a kiagunto, mei: Goto Hiromasa, with a large Seki stamp.  I know the large ones are out there, and I recall some other kaigunto with the stamp, but it will take some time to dig them out of the previous posts.

SmartSelect_20200805-105917_Word.jpg

stamp survey (1).pdf

Ooitame Mentor

Ooitame

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No problem Bruce.

 

Thanks Chris, it is ko gunome, but on both sides and the same spot it has about 2in. of sughua 3/4 up the sword and turns back to gunome. Not sure on the reason for this as it does look intentional. Yes this is the lowest numbered one I have seen yet. Would like to see and learn more on Nagamitsu and other Osaka RJT.

 

Kiipu Grand Master

Kiipu

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12 hours ago, vajo said:

Eric thats a nice nagamitsu. I have one in the same style but a higher no.

 

Actually, yours is lower.

阪  3490 vajo

阪 イ313 Ooitame

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Ooitame Mentor

Ooitame

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Chris, nice one! Good shot on the hada!

 

2 hours ago, Kiipu said:

 

Actually, yours is lower.

阪  3490 vajo

阪 イ313 Ooitame

Always willing to learn, Thomas, can you explain a bit further?

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Kiipu Grand Master

Kiipu

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If these are serial numbers, then they start at 1 and will go to three, four, or five digits.  It looks like four digits in this case.  After finishing the initial range of numbers starting with 1, they would start using a katakana prefix that follows the iroha poem order.  In the West, we call these prefixes series marks.

1 to XXXX

イ1 to イXXXX

ロ1 to ロXXXX

 

Something similar happened with Mantetsu swords except they did not use the no prefix series that started at 1.

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