Looking for advice on this wakizashi

[Jamesu]

Any advice appreciated. New to looking at nihonto, and I'm looking for my first collectors piece. I can't read the NBTHK certificate, but everything seems in order (it's a mumei and Yasuhiro attributed). Basically, I am wondering if this is a good price, if everything looks legit, and what in the world the description on the certificate might be. Thanks!

 

Link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare-Antique-Japanese-Sword-Wakizashi-YASUHIRO-with-NBTHK-Certificate/283917169654

[SteveM]

The NBTHK paper is from 1977, and simply claims it is a mumei wakizashi attributed to Yasuhiro. It doesn't say which generation. Its a very unusual, flamboyant koshirae. To me, looking at the size and the koshirae, it feels like its one of those pieces that was made deliberately small, almost like a miniature sword - for purposes that is the topic of debate here on NMB. Sword for a minor? Children's day sword? Prop in a play? Or just a regular wakizashi that happens to have a very glam koshirae? I don't hate it, but if I were starting out my sword collection I might try for a more orthodox piece with recent papers. This one feels like a curiosity. It feels like the koshirae is the draw here, rather than the sword.  

 

oops: and also, go to your profile and add your name so we know what to call you.

[ChrisW]

Perhaps a blade dressed up to be a gift?

[Ken-Hawaii]

Welcome to NMB, & please post your first name in your Profile, so we know how to address you.

 

The wakizashi is far from being unique, & was made in the early years of the Shinto era. The fact that it's papered is good, but being mumei definitely isn't. The polish is substandard (check out a good polish at https://www.aoijapan.net/wakizashi-bichu-kami-tachibana-yasuhiro-the-1st-generation/),& the koshirae is almost too garish to believe. What I can see of the jihada is pretty lifeless, & the hamon is some kind of midare. If the blade is Bizen, the seller has gone out of his way to hide those features.

 

I would save my money, but some books to study, & check out the For Sale section here to find a blade that's worth studying.

[Surfson]

Woopster, you have the right instincts.  Feel free as you find interesting blades to run them by the NMB members.  Most of us are happy to help steer you to something that is collectible, legitimate, in good condition and fairly priced.  We don't always agree with each other, but we often reach some sort of consensus, and at least you can get a good amount of feedback.  Picking up a good overview book or two is also a good idea.  

[Jamesu]

What price would any of you place on a sword like this?

 

Do any of you recommend any particular books?

 

The NBTHK paper is from 1977, and simply claims it is a mumei wakizashi attributed to Yasuhiro. It doesn't say which generation. Its a very unusual, flamboyant koshirae. To me, looking at the size and the koshirae, it feels like its one of those pieces that was made deliberately small, almost like a miniature sword - for purposes that is the topic of debate here on NMB. Sword for a minor? Children's day sword? Prop in a play? Or just a regular wakizashi that happens to have a very glam koshirae? I don't hate it, but if I were starting out my sword collection I might try for a more orthodox piece with recent papers. This one feels like a curiosity. It feels like the koshirae is the draw here, rather than the sword.  

 

oops: and also, go to your profile and add your name so we know what to call you.

 

That is what I was afraid - about picking a random Yasuhiro out on the listing. Will there ordinarily be the generation of maker specified on the certificate?

 

I thought it was quite different. So there are sometimes children's swords that pass for wakizashi? How would one tell the difference between the two?

 

Welcome to NMB, & please post your first name in your Profile, so we know how to address you.

 

The wakizashi is far from being unique, & was made in the early years of the Shinto era. The fact that it's papered is good, but being mumei definitely isn't. The polish is substandard (check out a good polish at https://www.aoijapan.net/wakizashi-bichu-kami-tachibana-yasuhiro-the-1st-generation/),& the koshirae is almost too garish to believe. What I can see of the jihada is pretty lifeless, & the hamon is some kind of midare. If the blade is Bizen, the seller has gone out of his way to hide those features.

 

I would save my money, but some books to study, & check out the For Sale section here to find a blade that's worth studying.

 

Very curious. I did have my name in my profile, but I changed my username to my name. What are you looking for on the jihada?

[ROKUJURO]

James,

the TSUBA in this flashy KOSHIRAE does not fit and was possibly replaced. The price is way too high for a MUMEI WAKIZASHI, even with papers.

[Surfson]

James, the sword is unremarkable, appears to have wide open grain in the shinogi ji and is unsigned.  The naked blade in a shirasaya with the papers would cost well under $1000 in my opinion.  So you have to ask yourself if the mounts are worth $2500+.  They are unusual and probably gaudy to most collectors.  I agree that it is overpriced.  

[SteveM]

 

That is what I was afraid - about picking a random Yasuhiro out on the listing. Will there ordinarily be the generation of maker specified on the certificate?

 

I thought it was quite different. So there are sometimes children's swords that pass for wakizashi? How would one tell the difference between the two?

 

 

Hard to say about the price. I do think the person is asking for a price that is at the very high end for this ensemble. 

The generation is sometimes listed on the authentication papers. If the sword has the characteristics of a certain generation of swordsmith, and the authentication team feels the sword is representative of that smith, they will attribute it to that specific smith. I don't have any statistics on how often this is. Its not unusual. And its also not unusual for them to just throw it in a generic box (say, Yasuhiro) and decline to pinpoint it to a specific generation. 

Regarding the size, as I said there is a wide range of thoughts on this. I wouldn't say for sure that there are children's swords passing for wakizashi. When there has been a sword of this size that somehow looks like a miniature katana rather than a wakizashi, there has been speculation on the forum about what the nature of the sword is. The bling on this particular scabbard tells me this scabbard wasn't meant for war or for official duties. 

 

Edit: I agree with what Robert says about the pricing. 

[Hoshi]

Don't touch it with a ten foot pole. Mumei shinto waks can be bought by the kilo in Japan. 

 

Koshirae is an absolute gaudy mess.   

 

It is not a desirable set, even for a couple hundred dollars. You are better off putting these dollars in the pot and waiting for an opportunity to buy a solid piece on the forum here. 

 

For shinto and later, you want UBU (not shortened), signed, papered, and polished. And avoid Waks. Waks no bueno. Waks are a minefield. Go for Katana. 

 

In your range a good place to start is http://swordsofjapan.com/ - Ray here will help you find something within your budget which is collectible. 

 

Here is a great site to look at what sits at the top and learn: https://yuhindo.com/

[Tom Darling]

This package is a real shiner that would go big in Harlem. IMHO.   

 

 

Tom D.

[Ken-Hawaii]

James, if you understood how to evaluate a blade, & the current market for Japanese blades, you would know why we are advising you to skip this blade.

 

Please take a look at https://to-ken.uk/resources/kantei.html for how Kantei (sword evaluation) should be done. The sugata (shape) of this blade is Shinto. The jigane (steel appearance) is, as I said, blah, as it shows no characteristics of a high-quality blade. The hamon is some kind of midare, but the polish is bad enough that it's hard to tell. Last, if a Shinto-era wakizashi is mumei (unsigned), it sticks out like a sore thumb. The only good thing is the NBTHK origami (papers), which adds a bit of value to an otherwise unremarkable blade.

 

Does this help you to understand our comments? As far as books, please do a search on NMB, as this has been discussed many times.

 

We welcome new people to NMB, James, & are willing to help, so please don't take our recommendations as anything negative. You're taking your first steps into a very-deep topic, & eBay isn't a place to wander until you have a lot more information. I don't know where you are in California, but if you're in the Bay Area (I used to live in Alameda), please contact the Northern California Japanese Sword Club (http://www.ncjsc.org/). Talking with more-experienced people is the best way to learn.