Jacques Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 All is in the title, in which era this sword was made ? 3 Quote
Alex A Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 Suguha start reminds me of late Edo Bizen, so il go with that 1 Quote
16k Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 I’d go with Kanbun Shinto too. But I guess this is a "trap" sword! 3 Quote
16k Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 Look at Sengo school. yes, I thought about that too, but I think the Hamon should reach closer to the ha with Sengo. 1 Quote
The Snowflake Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 Could be anything from Muromachi Mino to Hizen Tadahiro (nidai) but Kanbun looks true. Without the sugata its open to many interpretations kaga maybe? Kanesaki? 3 Quote
Surfson Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 Kan-ei. Looks like Kawachi no Kami Kunisuke or other early Osaka Shinto smith Quote
David Flynn Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 Instead of schools or smiths, lets just try and pick the era. 1 Quote
Tom Darling Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 Shinto, similiar to Kunisuke, I agree with Robert. Peace Tom D. Quote
AntiquarianCat Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 Since I’m a beginner is it okay if I ask for a hint? What is the sori type and how much sori? If it is saki, could it be terminal Muromachi? If not and little curvature I’ll instead guess Kanbun. The start of hamon is straight, that’s a pre Shinto tell isn’t it? Also are those crab claws? If those are claws am I looking at something related to Bizen? Quote
Jacques Posted July 21, 2020 Author Report Posted July 21, 2020 I just ask for the era... Answer to morrow Quote
Bazza Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 As JP says, this is almost certainly a "trap" sword!!! I would definitely say not Koto. With a suguyakidashi, sampin boshi and that slight taper from the monouchi to the kissaki I would have to say Shinto era. The hamon certainly reminds me of a sword I've seen and it does have Mino traits in the sanbonsugi style. Other than that, I would say it is an excellent sword whenever it was made!!! Possibly an utsushi. Looking forward. BaZZa. 2 Quote
Surfson Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 I did state Kan-ei, which is I guess is what Jean meant by era. I also said Shinto, which could also be construed as era. Quote
Alex A Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 Ok, we are trying to get it down to micro-era Il zoom in as best i can 1830-1860 1 Quote
16k Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 1667, a lucky day in January, between the hour of the Dragon and the Snake! (I’m sure I’m right! Try to beat that!) 8 Quote
Jacques Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Posted July 22, 2020 Well gentlemen, Thanks for triying. i did'nt give sugata and measurements because i wanted to focus on the hamon (if you look attentively at the sori it's shallow but saki). Hamon different in the upper part of ble blade and in the lower part of it leads to Sue Koto particularly a period of about 35 years between 1521 and 1555 (Daiei, Kyoröku and Tenbun era). The yakidashi usually thought to be only shinto is effectively misleading This sword was made by Muramasa but you can find the same kind of hamon in some works by Nidai Kanemoto or Sukesada and others. 5 Quote
Alex A Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Dam, knew it was Tenbun! Christian, i thought it was Yokoyama too, some very similar hamon, thought maybe that was the "trick" 1 Quote
16k Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Incredible, Muramasa looked so obvious I dismissed it immediately! Quote
Bazza Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Well gentlemen, Thanks for triying. i did'nt give sugata and measurements because i wanted to focus on the hamon (if you look attentively at the sori it's shallow but saki). Hamon different in the upper part of ble blade and in the lower part of it leads to Sue Koto particularly a period of about 35 years between 1521 and 1555 (Daiei, Kyoröku and Tenbun era). The yakidashi usually thought to be only shinto is effectively misleading This sword was made by Muramasa but you can find the same kind of hamon in some works by Nidai Kanemoto or Sukesada and others. Shodai Muramasa.jpg A real teaser Jacques, and a VERY good lesson in the universality of some sword features. JP said it - "Muramasa looked so obvious I dismissed it immediately!" I can only think that those of our number who did not have a guess all knew The Answer. My real gut feeling is that they didn't have a clue!! C'mon now, who amongst our cognoscenti REALLY knew The Answer??? Be upfront about it, for this is surely what NMB is about amongst our everyday (enjoyable nonetheless) banter. This was fun, Jacques, and a few more in your busy day wouldn't go astray!!! BaZZa. , 3 Quote
16k Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Well, Sengo was mentioned on the other page, I said it looked like it but dismissed it as too obvious and said it should be closer to the ha. But the box shaped, three gunome features, followed by a gently undulating Suguha is found again and again in the Sengo school. 2 Quote
Bazza Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Well, Sengo was mentioned on the other page, I said it looked like it but dismissed it as too obvious and said it should be closer to the ha. But the box shaped, three gunome features, followed by a gently undulating Suguha is found again and again in the Sengo school. Hmmm, I'll go and look at my old Sengo blade in Shingunto koshirae, with unusual hanger. I've been meaning to put it up here for a long time - straws on my back!!! BaZZa. 1 Quote
paulb Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 I'll hold my hand up Bazza, I don't think would have gone to Muramasa as a first guess. My initial reaction would have been something a bit later. I am glad to say we continue to learn and hopefully don't take anything for granted. Quote
Alex A Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 A real teaser Jacques, and a VERY good lesson in the universality of some sword features. JP said it - "Muramasa looked so obvious I dismissed it immediately!" I can only think that those of our number who did not have a guess all knew The Answer. My real gut feeling is that they didn't have a clue!! C'mon now, who amongst our cognoscenti REALLY knew The Answer??? Be upfront about it, for this is surely what NMB is about amongst our everyday (enjoyable nonetheless) banter. This was fun, Jacques, and a few more in your busy day wouldn't go astray!!! BaZZa. , Just using the hamon, il be honest, Muramasa did not register once. How does that old saying go, "the eye sees what it wants to see" All good fun. 1 Quote
16k Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Look at the blade from the Sandai here. Typical box shapes similar to that one. http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/articles/Muramasa2.pdf actually, my lack of knowledge may be why I thought about it. Having a Sengo, I’ve studied this school more particularly and know it much better than others. So for once, limited knowledge proved helpful. Though I dismissed it all the same as I thought it was to easy and Jacques was tricking us both with Sengo and Shinto. Two other examples where those shapes are typical: 2 Quote
Ganko Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Goes to show you that trying to judge a sword solely by it's hamon is akin to judging a book by it's cover. A very good exercise. Quote
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