Iron civilian gunto tsuba

[Bruno]

44 minutes ago, vajo said:

These marks are hammered to fit the nakago ana to the blade.

Thanks Chris and John. I supposed it was what they were indeed.

 

I attached a different tsuba (not mine) of a similar model posted sooner on another thread by another member. You can see the 6 "stacking" are exactly the same to the ones on my tsuba.

 

Hence I was wondering if these marks were cast like the tsuba and not added later by hand.

[Bruce Pennington]

That is peculiar, Bruno. They don’t seem to push the edges inward like the other stacking marks do. And like you say, they are identical on both.

[vajo]

I look for mine and it has two punch marks. 

[Bruno]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

They don’t seem to push the edges inward like the other stacking marks do

I think so.

 

A third tsuba of this model will enlight us!

[vajo]

Found this one?

 

優品 帝国陸軍刀鍔 撫角形 桜花の図 黄銅地(鍔、刀装具)｜売買されたオークション情報、yahooの商品情報をアーカイブ公開 - オークファン（aucfan.com）

[vajo]

Edit:

You are right Bruno. Sorry i compared the wrong side.

Maybe your tsuba is that from the yahoo auction in Japan?

 

[Bruno]

4 hours ago, vajo said:

Maybe your tsuba is that from the yahoo auction in Japan?

Chris, thanks for putting them side by side. 

 

I recently bought mine from Ebay, seller is in Texas.

[vajo]

The tsuba looks so exactly the same. Every scratch, every punch, and the color. I cant belive that this is a copy. Its nearly impossible to cast in that way that the patination looks the same. I think it is the same tsuba. Maybe bought in Japan - goes to the States und you bought it?

 

We need another model. 

[Bruno]

Indeed Chris, they so much the same! 

 

Yes we need another model that a member already own or will.

 

I feel the stackings may be for decorative purpose in the case of this model.

[Jcstroud]

Appear to be from the same mold likely reproductions I once worked as a molding Technician in the 1980,s certainly possible.

[Jcstroud]

One way to verify is to look for evidence of casting flash removal or vent ports that have sanded or polished away if they are reproductions usually you will find the mold parting lines or remnants thereof 

Hope this helps . 

 

John S.

[Bruce Pennington]

Found another with the sakura pattern, for sale at this Smallsword ebay sale.  It has a November 1939, showa stamped, Kanemichi blade.

 

 

[The Blacksmith]

Some years back, I had a katana with the bamboo style fittings that Bruce posted earlier, a matching set, tsuba, fuchi, kashira, with black tsuka ito. IIRC. it had the standard military menuki though. The blade was signed  Ido Hiro Mitsu Saku. It did have a leather combat cover on the wooden saya, so I presume it wasnt a civilian katana.

Ron Gregory also shows a set of these fittings in Military Swords of Japan, p.47, pl.63. presumably these were an optional extra perhaps.

[Bruce Pennington]

59 minutes ago, The Blacksmith said:

It did have a leather combat cover on the wooden saya, so I presume it wasnt a civilian katana.

They were used by the civilian branch of the military called Gunzoku.

[Bruno]

2 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Found another with the sakura pattern

Nice find Bruce. I wish I could find a tsuba like this one.

[The Blacksmith]

Thank you Bruce. I will try and find a pictuer of this sword.  Hopefully , I can post it.

[Bruno]

Finally I found one, on Yahoo Japan.

 

Maybe the brass has been a bit too much cleaned.

 

According to seller description, it is cucumber leaf(?!).

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, Bruno said:

cucumber leaf

Well, that's as good a guess as any we've tossed about.

[TimJ]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:27 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

 

We add "?" What should we call it?

 

Yotsumoto no sakura

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, TimJ said:

 

Yotsumoto no sakura

Sounds good!  What does it mean?

[samusamu]

how about this tsuba ? 

[Bruce Pennington]

8 minutes ago, samusamu said:

how about this tsuba ? 

Quite interesting, Marsel!  Could be a mon, right?  The 3:5:3 pattern is found on official swords, though.  How about the rest of the fittings?  Are they civil, military, or a mix?

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's a sakura pattern Gunzoku tsuba on a civil/military gunto.  Blade is a 1943 Seki-stamped Toshimasa.  Found on this Antiques-atlas sale page.

[vajo]

Looks like assambled from different parts.

[Bruce Pennington]

5 hours ago, vajo said:

Looks like assembled from different parts.

But that's how almost all of them look when civil swords are re-fitted for the war.  I've seen literally every combination of mixed parts.

[Tensho]

11 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

But that's how almost all of them look when civil swords are re-fitted for the war.  I've seen literally every combination of mixed parts.

True. There is only 6 photos, but this one has Seppa cutout for Chuso/locking latch, and I don't see the fuchi or tsuba being fit for one. The Koiguchi on the saya is probably meant for a latch too. The kabutogane is probably original but does not seem fitted fully on the tsuka(it looks like there's a gap and the ito was tied off) but it looks like there might be a hole in tsuka for the sarute barrel screw. 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok, good points.

[Bruce Pennington]

The sakura pattern seems to be popping up lately.  Found this on a 1942 Kaneuji blade for sale HERE.  The Kaneuji bears his kokuin, too.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks to Russ, @The Blacksmith, another sakura pattern tsuba on a blade by Kanehisa, with large Seki stamp and kokuin.

 

 

[Tensho]

Here's one I came across posted on here by kyushukairu