Iron civilian gunto tsuba

[Itomagoi]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to show you this tsuba I found. It's probably an iron civilian gunto tsuba. But unfortunately I have no further information about it. Perhaps one of you can tell me more.

[Itomagoi]

I found this sword with an identical tsuba:

 

https://www.antique-swords.com/Q19-WW2-Japanese-Army-Officers-Shin-Gunto-Katana.html

[Ganko]

It appears stamped or cast.

[Itomagoi]

Yes, I think also it's a cast tsuba.

[Bruce Pennington]

That's quite interesting Peter! After seeing the other example you found, it appears to be a private/civilian version with hints of IJA qualities, so made for a civilian blade that is being converted to WWII use. I've seen island swords with really poor attemts to replicate the IJA tsuba, but this is not what we're seeing here. They are not trying to "copy" the IJA tsuba, but simply add hints/flavors of it into the private tsuba.

 

The fact that you show 2 examples could mean they both came from the same shop, but they arent' identical so it opens the idea up that more than 1 shop was making these.

 

I'd like to see more examples if they can be found.

 

(I'm adding the other one just in case the website page ever goes inactive)

[vajo]

I like it!

[vajo]

After a long time search i could complete my fittings of a civillian koshirae.

 

[Itomagoi]

Wow Chris, what a great set. Congratulation.

[ChrisW]

Nice set Chris!

[Michaelr]

Peter could it be that the Tsuba that you have is the same one that was on the sword that you show that was sold? Maybe the person that purchased that sword removed the Tsuba and replaced with something else and sold the original? Just a thought.

           MikeR

[Itomagoi]

Hi Mike, I bought this tsuba with a different gunto. So it's not possible.

[lonely panet]

This is indeed cast iron, and they are very rare.

 

I have only ever seen another 1, and it was the one I owned.

 

Sadly for its rareity, they don't sell for much. I believe they were made for the 94s when transitioning to the 98

[Itomagoi]

In any case, it is good to know that it is not a chinese copy.

[vajo]

In any case, it is good to know that it is not a chinese copy.

 

No Peter it's not a copy you doing right not to give it away. Oil it a little to prevent the rust.

[Bruno]

After a long time search i could complete my fittings of a civillian koshirae.

 

gendai_civillian_koshirae_fittings.jpg

 Super nice Chris! I am looking around for the cherry blossoms civilian set with the idea the have a koshirae made some day, hopefully with a nice gendai-to.

[Greg F]

I had one just like this that I donated to the board raffle a few years ago. Can't remember who ended up with it though.

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's one that isn't quite the same, but it's quite thin and resembles this in certain ways. It seems half-way between the OP example and a standard tsuba. It's on a civil blade mounted for the war.

 

Here: https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forum/ken-jasper-international-militaria-forums/Japanese-militaria-forum/11682681-ww2-Japanese-samurai-sword

[Itomagoi]

I have such a Tsuba too :-)

I find them very beautiful

[Itomagoi]

As an addition to this topic, a photo of another iron WWII tsuba.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Itomagoi said:

another iron WWII tsuba.

Nice example Peter!  I’m starting to appreciate the humble beauty of these.

[Itomagoi]

Two more for the database...

[Bruce Pennington]

That's cool, Peter! 

So to the known civil/military tsuba
Sakura                                         Bamboo                                 Plain                                       Fig Leaf

We add "?" What should we call it?

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, I think you can add these to Showa period civilian mounted military fittings. A complete set of pine tree branch motif fittings on a December 1943 HIROMITSU blade. 

[Bruce Pennington]

24 minutes ago, IJASWORDS said:

Showa period civilian mounted military fittings

Neil,

Are you saying that you think this tsuba/fittings were made during the war, and made specifically to go on civil blades re-fitted for the war?  I had always assumed (DOH, there's that ugly word again!) that fittings like this were with a blade that had been bought as a civil sword.  THEN, that civil sword was bought by the military, or donated by the owner, for the war, where the civil fittings were simply retained and a leather covered saya was added.

 

I'm not arguing, simply wonder what impressed you about these that they were military made, or made for military swords.

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, good question. It is definitely Showa period. I am assuming that being the same size, shape, and having the hole for the leather securing tab as the "bamboo" example, pictured, it was. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Good points, Neil.  I'm no civil sword guy at all, but I wouldn't think old tsuba ever had a hole for a leather strap.  Guys correct me if I'm wrong.  And you can see yours was made with the hole.  It wasn't cut into an older tsuba.  The art was crafted around the hole. 

 

Hmmm.  I guess we've got another style!  Would it be much trouble to get a naked shot of the just the tsuba for the files?

[Brian]

It's a known Showa pattern. Not sure if it was an option that could be ordered, but it's like the bamboo set and seen on some military swords.

[IJASWORDS]

[Bruce Pennington]

B.E.A.Utiful, thanks, Neil!

[Bruce Pennington]

Another variation of the Bamboo leaf pattern tsuba.  Found on a Showa-stamped Yoshisada blade.  Seems to be a lower grade craftsmanship than several of the others we've seen: