Certificate

[flo06]

Hello members,

 

Do you know this type of certificate ? Fukunaga Suiken ?
What do you think about it ? Fake or real ?

 

Many thanks in advance for your replies.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think the paper attributes the sword as Meibutsu 月影村正 (Tsukikage? Muramasa). Unfortunately I haven't got a full list of Meibutsu at my hands. However given where it is sold at the moment I would approach with great caution, as there would be lot better venues in Japan to sell a genuine Muramasa Meibutsu.

 

I do not have knowledge about Fukunaga Suiken origami so I cannot comment on the legitimaty of the papers.

[flo06]

Thank you for your comment Jussi.

I agree with you, it's very suspicious. I was surprised when I saw this curious Fukunaga Suiken on a Meibutsu, hence my question.

[C0D]

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g439924880
The blade looks nothing like Muramasa, better study the sword first and then the papers 

[flo06]

Manuel, with all due respect, your comment is presumptuous. These pictures don't allow for a clear judgment, too bad quality.
If you refer to the hamon, know that Muramasa also did hitatsura.

You should be more modest before looking at Japanese swords.

 

And the subject is the certificate, not the sword.
 

[C0D]

  On 7/16/2020 at 12:33 PM, flo06 said:

Manuel, with all due respect, your comment is presumptuous. These pictures don't allow for a clear judgment, too bad quality.

If you refer to the hamon, know that Muramasa also did hitatsura.

You should be more modest before looking at Japanese swords.

 

And the subject is the certificate, not the sword.

 

I'm sorry if i sound presumptuous, that wasn't my intention. Just i studied Muramasa and his works for a while and what i see on this blade doesn't look anything like his workmanship. He made hitatsura, but never this picturesque and regular. Hada doesn't fit either. 

What i said about the papers wasn't against you, since you said yourself that this is suspicious, is just a general raccomandation. I always doubt of papers on mumei blades, even NTHK or NBTHK, after all is just an educated guess 

 

And about the certificate doesn't seem Fukunaga's http://www.shibuiswords.com/papers1.htm

[flo06]

No problem, no hard feelings.

You have better eyes than me then because I can't see the hada well with these bad pictures.

And personally, unlike you, I have not yet been able to see all Muramasa's of the world despite my many books on the subject (sorry for this little irony ).

 

I posted this topic because in more than 20 years of passion for the Japanese sword I have never seen this kind of Fukunaga Suiken. I was interested to know if it was true or fake, just for my information.

 

Thanks anyway for your reply Manuel.

[C0D]

The signature is different too, a compare of original Fukunaga's hakogaki on left and the certificate on right, please note the last kanji

[Jacques]

  On 7/16/2020 at 12:58 PM, C0D said:

I'm sorry if i sound presumptuous, that wasn't my intention. Just i studied Muramasa and his works for a while and what i see on this blade doesn't look anything like his workmanship. He made hitatsura, but never this picturesque and regular. Hada doesn't fit either. 

What i said about the papers wasn't against you, since you said yourself that this is suspicious, is just a general raccomandation. I always doubt of papers on mumei blades, even NTHK or NBTHK, after all is just an educated guess 

 

And about the certificate doesn't seem Fukunaga's http://www.shibuiswords.com/papers1.htm

[Jacques]

  On 7/17/2020 at 8:01 PM, Jacques D. said:

 

  On 7/16/2020 at 12:58 PM, C0D said:

 Just i studied Muramasa and his works for a while and what i see on this blade doesn't look anything like his workmanship. He made hitatsura, 

 

 

Shodai Muramasa never did hitatsura, the sandai did it but he doesn't have the same skill than the shodai. He is ranked chujo while the shodai is saijo. Due to this difference, saying "Muramasa etc". is misleading.

[flo06]

Jacques, your opinions are not welcome in my topics. Thank you in advance to respect that.

 

Manuel, indeed there is a notable difference in the last kanji. This certificate really seems to be a fake. Thanks again for your help.

[SteveM]

The kanji are 剣 and its variation 剱. Considering this is a pen name, I wouldn't automatically dismiss one or the other as fake. I think it is plausible that he used both variations. The big name attribution for the sword, and the lack of corroborating NBTHK certificate certainly sets off alarms. But the use of one kanji or its variant in Suiken's signature doesn't strike me as weird or suspicious. 

 

I'm not a Fukunaga Suiken specialist, so if anyone has information that he only ever used one way to sign his name I will be happy to know this. 

 

Here is another Fukunaga kantei-sho using the 剱 kanji.

 

 

Edited to remove redundancy.

[SteveM]

And here's a sayagaki from a past thread on NMB where Suiken uses the 剱 kanji.

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/4954-sayagaki-from-fukunaga-suiken-and-attributed-to-nakajima-rai/