0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 I bought this recently. It has an antique tsuka. The saya and fuchi are missing, and the original tsuba and seppa had been replaced with some modern ones. The hamon is hard to see at most angles but I can see almost all of it. It looks to me like it had a proper polish at one point, but it is not in great shape given the sheath is missing. I have done nothing to the blade except oil it, and use a little uchiko powder. I'm wanting to know what it could be, (nihonto, showato, etc), and how old it is. Thanks Quote
Bazza Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 It looks like a TERRIBLY abused Nihonto. The nakago has been thoroughly cleaned to the point of uselessness to assist determining age. I would think only a properly trained polisher could give an opinion by putting in a window and sadly I think that would cost more than this poor specimen is worth... Worst case of abuse I have seen in a very long time. BaZZa. 2 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Posted July 14, 2020 It looks like a TERRIBLY abused Nihonto. The nakago has been thoroughly cleaned to the point of uselessness to assist determining age. I would think only a properly trained polisher could give an opinion by putting in a window and sadly I think that would cost more than this poor specimen is worth... Worst case of abuse I have seen in a very long time. BaZZa. Yeah, it seemed a little sketchy such an old looking blade would have a nakago with so little rust, especially with the rust being dark. I can see the file markings though. I think the same person who put a modern tsuba on it altered the nakago. Quote
Kmad Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 I think the same person who put a modern tsuba on it altered the nakago. The story gets worse and worse. looks like they did a right job on the poor sword REgards Ken 1 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Posted July 14, 2020 The story gets worse and worse. looks like they did a right job on the poor sword REgards Ken But wait, there's more... In person there is a yokote, but I can barely see it. Given the ridges aren't very crisp, especially near the kissaki, I think someone put a modern metal polish like flintz on the blade, or worse, sanded it. Regardless of the piss-poor shape, does anyone have any guesses of what it could be? I will include close ups of the nakago, as even though it has been tampered with, I can at least see some of the filing Quote
Babu Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 With that opening just above the habaki area I would say this was not worth restoration.i know of at least one other sword had similar abuse and someone tried to repatinate the nakago but it remained unconvincing. 1 Quote
SAS Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 Early Shinto based on shape and hamon, too bad about the nakago, have to see it in hand to see if it can be rescued. 1 Quote
vajo Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 Totally destroyed. Complete out of shape and the guy who has made it was total crazy. 1 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Posted July 14, 2020 Totally destroyed. Complete out of shape and the guy who has made it was total crazy. You said it. I bought it off of eBay. In the pictures, the person had the blade resting directly on the ground, on concrete, outside. These people disgust me to say the least. Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Posted July 14, 2020 Early Shinto based on shape and hamon, too bad about the nakago, have to see it in hand to see if it can be rescued. So we can be pretty sure that this is a nihonto, But I am getting mixed responses to weather or not it is saveable. If it is not worth sending off to a professional polisher, what should I do with it? If it is worth getting restored, how would I be able to tell?the nakago and Machi are in poor shape, but the blade itself seems mostly alright to me. Quote
ChrisW Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 You CAN get it restored. But it does not make sense financially to have it restored. The amount of money you'd have to put into it would never be recouped and you'd be putting A LOT of money into it to restore it. You'd have to have the nakago repatinated, a full polish done and there's no guarantee that the polishing process wouldn't reveal more flaws. The fukure near the machi points to there being even more throughout the blade. My intuition says that whoever the braintrust was that 'did work' on this blade severely stressed the metal and destroyed its integrity. If they used abrasive means, its very likely that they removed the hamon at points in the edge. I can also see that the ha-machi has been obliterated and that means raising both machi further up the blade so that a habaki can sit properly on the blade. This is a pretty substantial case of abuse and you're better off just using it as a study piece of how bad abuse can get. I understand where you're coming from though. I often buy blades from eBay in hopes of saving them. You did save this from being totally annihilated; but it doesn't warrant expensive work on it. And the board's position is that you should never let amateurs attempt work on this (as has already been done sadly). In summation: Yes, it can be restored BUT it does not make sense to go to the effort at all. There's a ton of issues as to why you shouldn't. 3 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Posted July 14, 2020 You CAN get it restored. But it does not make sense financially to have it restored. The amount of money you'd have to put into it would never be recouped and you'd be putting A LOT of money into it to restore it. You'd have to have the nakago repatinated, a full polish done and there's no guarantee that the polishing process wouldn't reveal more flaws. The fukure near the machi points to there being even more throughout the blade. My intuition says that whoever the braintrust was that 'did work' on this blade severely stressed the metal and destroyed its integrity. If they used abrasive means, its very likely that they removed the hamon at points in the edge. I can also see that the ha-machi has been obliterated and that means raising both machi further up the blade so that a habaki can sit properly on the blade. This is a pretty substantial case of abuse and you're better off just using it as a study piece of how bad abuse can get. I understand where you're coming from though. I often buy blades from eBay in hopes of saving them. You did save this from being totally annihilated; but it doesn't warrant expensive work on it. And the board's position is that you should never let amateurs attempt work on this (as has already been done sadly). In summation: Yes, it can be restored BUT it does not make sense to go to the effort at all. There's a ton of issues as to why you shouldn't. That was exactly what I needed to hear, thanks Quote
ChrisW Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 Just know that if you go to the cost and effort of having it restored, there is a VERY high chance of getting nothing back in return. The metal's integrity has a high chance of having been compromised with more fukure showing up and the hamon likely having disappeared in spots due to what looks like grinding having been done on the blade. My personal recommendation is to just study the blade. Even fair-condition wakizashi that are nearing 300 or more years old, especially mumei, it doesn't make financial sense to restore. Usually restoring wakizashi is a losing proposition and even on many katana it is the same! Right now, the market for restored nihonto is soft and many people struggle to sell them at price levels that yield profit. At least, that is my perception of the current situation in the west. 1 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Posted July 14, 2020 I guess I'll find some spare parts to replace those which are missing and call it done. What looks like the hamon in pictures I think is part of the original polish. In natural light, I can see the full real hamon. I'm still not going to take the risk of getting it polished. I paid very little for it, because the seller didn't know how old it really was. Not too bad for my first nihonto. 1 Quote
ChrisW Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 You should watch the sales section here! Browse through what is already there; you might find a real treasure! Or watch daily to see what new things pop up. You'll get a better deal for your money here with more confidence in what you buy. Glad you've caught the nihonto bug! 1 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 .....I paid very little for it, because the seller didn't know how old it really was..... Darius, it is not the age that makes the value of a blade, it is the quality. 1 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Posted July 14, 2020 Darius, it is not the age that makes the value of a blade, it is the quality. They thought it was an older reproduction sword. I got it very cheap because of it. 1 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Posted July 14, 2020 I will definitely make sure to check out the sales section here regularly. I didn't even know there was one until you mentioned it Quote
Dave R Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 Given that it was very cheap, treat it as a fun piece, that you can let others get their fingers all over it and keep the good ones safe! 1 Quote
ChrisW Posted July 14, 2020 Report Posted July 14, 2020 Especially on that nakago! Maybe you can repatinate it that way! (That was a joke, doubt it'd do much) 1 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Posted July 14, 2020 I know what you mean. Many can't help but touch the blade the first chance they get. Even though it's not a very happy sword, I probably wouldn't let someone clumsy handle it, that's what a Hanwei is for 4 Quote
Ken-Hawaii Posted July 15, 2020 Report Posted July 15, 2020 Not too bad for my first nihonto I'm sorry, Darius, but I disagree. Had you bought a blade with any redeeming factors, I wouldn't have any argument. But there's nothing about this one that you can learn from, so I hope you re-zero your brain, & buy a quality Nihonto, next time. Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 15, 2020 Author Report Posted July 15, 2020 I'm sorry, Darius, but I disagree. Had you bought a blade with any redeeming factors, I wouldn't have any argument. But there's nothing about this one that you can learn from, so I hope you re-zero your brain, & buy a quality Nihonto, next time. Maybe I should have said "it could have been worse for my first nihonto". No doubt, you are right, not much to be appreciated in this piece. I am not seasoned and I am too timid to jump into buying a higher quality/premium blade until I am informed enough. 1 Quote
AntiquarianCat Posted July 15, 2020 Report Posted July 15, 2020 Hello Darius, if it is okay with you telling others, how much did you pay for it? I'm probably just not very perceptive but I can't make out the yokote and wonder if that might be due to damage. Although like you said, look on the bright side, it could have been worse: you could have bought a really shoddy acid etched Chinese reproduction had you been less lucky. 1 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 15, 2020 Author Report Posted July 15, 2020 Hello Darius, if it is okay with you telling ohers, how much did you pay for it? I'm probably just not very perceptive but I can't make out the yokote and wonder if that might be due to damage. Although like you said, look on the bright side, it could have been worse: you could have bought a really shoddy acid etched Chinese reproduction had you been less lucky. Some 370 usd. Probably could have found something in the same price, but completely without mounts from komonjo. This had a habaki that was old, but I'm not it sure was original, a modern tsuba, and a tsuka, which seems original. The handle is intact, but could be better. The yokote, and shinogi near the monouchi especially, are both worn, kind of like what flintz polish would do from my experience with reproduction swords. The shinogi lower on the blade seems fine. 2 Quote
AntiquarianCat Posted July 16, 2020 Report Posted July 16, 2020 I’ve seen lots of really ugly modern beaters/“replica” sites try to convince people to buy at that price so yeah, could have done much worse. This one might be messed up but at least it’s antique. Although, katana-boutique has sold mostly in polish, niceish looking Tanto at the 300+$ range so if you wanted a budget sword you can study, I feel that might be better. 1 Quote
0Takeda0 Posted July 16, 2020 Author Report Posted July 16, 2020 I've been keeping a close eye on katana-boutique. They seem reputable. Daimyo54 also seems to have blades in the same price point, most of them are out of polish though. Quote
b.hennick Posted July 16, 2020 Report Posted July 16, 2020 I have had bad experiences with Daimyo54 and avoid his listing. Twice burned. 2 Quote
IanC Posted July 30, 2020 Report Posted July 30, 2020 I have personally had no experience with buying from these sellers but have viewed their listings before... I would definitely agree that this blade is in extremely poor shape...spending money on a polish would be a financial loss. Learn from it as it is..... 1 Quote
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