Gunto mounted waki

[Leen]

Recently I aquired a waki in shin gunto mounting. Suriage blade with a nagasa of 54 cm. Tsuba, sepa, tsuka etc. all numbered 1. Allthough my camera is very decent, my photography skills are not...anyway here goes nothing, enjoy.

[Bruce Pennington]

That's cool, Leen! Have you had it translated yet?

 

Just curious about that tassel. Is it the lighting? The colors look peculiar.

[Leen]

Thanks Bruce, I have not (had it) translated yet. The tassel is a peculiar red and probably a modern reproduction.

[PNSSHOGUN]

If you show a photo of the tassel and crown area we van verify if it's original.

[SteveM]

Here's your man

 

伊勢守藤原信貞

Ise-no-kami Fujiwara Nobusada

 

http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/N2545_W2769_PUP.htm

[Leen]

Thanks Steve! @John, the tassel is unlike any ww2 tassel I know. Therefore I very much lean towards it beiing a “modern” repro. Allthough the tassel supposedly is with the sword for a long time now. 

[Geraint]

Dear Leen.

 

Here is some information for you.  NOBUSADA, real name is Ganmaku Ichirōsaemon, located in Shimizu Ouno-gun (now Shimizu, Ibigawa-town, Ibi-gun, Gifu pref.) during Early Edo period in early 17th century.  (Sanmei)

“The Ganmaku school engaged in swordmaking in Kiyomitsu of Mino province, from the Daei era of the mid Muromachi period, to the early Edo period.  It is said that the school originated from the Jumyo school, who were active in the same part of Mino province.  The head of the family traditionally used the name “Ujinobu” as his artist’s name.  Uninobu, (a different character), and Nobusada also belong to this school.  They were favoured by many samurai because of the brave and daring name of the school.  (This refers to the sound of the name when pronounced by Japanese).    (Nihon-to, Issue No. 4, 1996)

 

If yours is like the one I have then it will be quite a substantial sword, when I first got mine I was shocked when I compared it to another wakizashi.

 

A nice find.

 

All the best.

[PNSSHOGUN]

  On 7/14/2020 at 7:04 AM, Leen said:

Thanks Steve! @John, the tassel is unlike any ww2 tassel I know. Therefore I very much lean towards it beiing a “modern” repro. Allthough the tassel supposedly is with the sword for a long time now. 

Yes, that does not resemble any original tassel I am aware of.

[raaay]

I have an almost   identical tassel as above with a maroon outer and red inner coloring and another with maroon outer and blue on the inside of the tassel .

 

I have had these two tassels for well over 30yrs plus , were they faking tassels back then ?  i always thought they maybe some sort of civilian issued tassel / rank ?

[raaay]

just adding a couple of pics of these unusual tassel colors as previously mentioned , which have been mounted and show some signs of ware and tear ,

 

Admin , please move to another topic if not suitable in this post .

 

 

 

[Leen]

  On 7/14/2020 at 7:50 AM, Geraint said:

Dear Leen.

 

Here is some information for you.  NOBUSADA, real name is Ganmaku Ichirōsaemon, located in Shimizu Ouno-gun (now Shimizu, Ibigawa-town, Ibi-gun, Gifu pref.) during Early Edo period in early 17th century.  (Sanmei)

“The Ganmaku school engaged in swordmaking in Kiyomitsu of Mino province, from the Daei era of the mid Muromachi period, to the early Edo period.  It is said that the school originated from the Jumyo school, who were active in the same part of Mino province.  The head of the family traditionally used the name “Ujinobu” as his artist’s name.  Uninobu, (a different character), and Nobusada also belong to this school.  They were favoured by many samurai because of the brave and daring name of the school.  (This refers to the sound of the name when pronounced by Japanese).    (Nihon-to, Issue No. 4, 1996)

 

If yours is like the one I have then it will be quite a substantial sword, when I first got mine I was shocked when I compared it to another wakizashi.

 

A nice find.

 

All the best.

Thanks Gerard, appreciatie it!

 

 

  On 7/14/2020 at 9:30 AM, raaay said:

just adding a couple of pics of these unusual tassel colors as previously mentioned , which have been mounted and show some signs of ware and tear ,

 

Admin , please move to another topic if not suitable in this post .

 

 

 

20200714_095912.jpg

Hi Ray, the maroon and red tassel is exactly the same as mine. The tassel that came with my sword, is with the sword for as long as anyone can remember (over thirty years).

Allthough I lean towards repro t am certainly not sure of that. It would be interesting to dive in it a little further!

[Dave R]

  On 7/14/2020 at 9:30 AM, raaay said:

just adding a couple of pics of these unusual tassel colors as previously mentioned , which have been mounted and show some signs of ware and tear ,

 

Admin , please move to another topic if not suitable in this post .

 

 

 

20200714_095912.jpg

 

 These might be profitably posted over at Japanese Militaria in the sense that Mr Komiya might know what they are. He has access to and can translate original IJA regulations, and has delivered some useful revelations over the years already.

[Leen]

Great idea Dave!

[PNSSHOGUN]

These look far too crude to be originals IMO, and reproduction/fake tassels have been made for well over 30 years it seems.

[raaay]

Hi John 

 

30  plus years ago,  was it really worth faking basic officer tassels ,  i am not sure why they would bother  back then  ,  just my two pennies worth 

 

The tassels i have never came through any  dealer or auction sales , they were acquired through   private sales  , so i had know  reason  to doubt  they were not original to the swords , i  just thought they were  some sort unrecorded tassel ?

 

but it will be interesting to find out .

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 7/14/2020 at 9:30 AM, raaay said:

just adding a couple of pics of these unusual tassel colors as previously mentioned , which have been mounted and show some signs of ware and tear ,

 

Admin , please move to another topic if not suitable in this post .

 

 

 

20200714_095912.jpg

Ray, if you don't mind, I'm going to post your identical tassel on the warrelics thread. Nick wasn't bothered by the color, and I'd like to find out why.

[Leen]

I made some other pictures of mine which I’ll post there to Bruce

[Ontario_Archaeology]

I found that the colours of fakes can be hard to actually determine unless it is put side by side with a real one. Different lighting really affects how the colour comes out.

[Bruce Pennington]

Here are 2 more pics of Leen's tassel (from our Warrelics conversation), and it looks more brownish than purple with better lighting.

 

Like Matt's recommendation, the answer may only come when Leen has another one to compare it to. Though, I wonder, like all other gunto fittings that vary a bit with multiple contractors, whether this could simply be understood with that in mind.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Not a Japanese wartime tassel in my humble opinion. Even in the original Fuller & Gregory book (published over 30 years ago) they mention reproductions coming from Pakistan. Even on late war swords of the lowest quality have the normal type of tassel we all know.

[raaay]

Hi Bruce

 

that would be good to post elsewhere for an other opinion , sorry i meant to like your post pressed unlike by mistake ,Oop's 

[Leen]

I do have other swords with original tassels (the blue brown type). I was and still am thinking it’s a reproduction. At first sight but also having compared it to the other three original ones I have. Further research didn’t change my mind, allthough it was fun to do.

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 7/15/2020 at 9:34 PM, Leen said:

I do have other swords with original tassels (the blue brown type). I was and still am thinking it’s a reproduction. At first sight but also having compared it to the other three original ones I have. Further research didn’t change my mind, allthough it was fun to do.

Ah. That settles it for me then.