Nie and Nioi

[benkyoka]

I am still new to the world of nihonto and am still doing much more reading than I am doing handling when it comes to these blades. When it comes to nie and nioi, mostly I have had to go on pictures from books, and sometimes just drawings, to try and learn to distinguish the difference. To be honest, I am having a difficult time. For myself, without the ability to pick up many blades and handle them personally, I am still somewhat ignorant of the difference between nie and nioi.

 

To quote the Connoisseur's; "Nie is the term used for individual particles that look like twinkling stars and that may be discerned with the naked eye. Nioi, on the other hand, has a misty look resembling the Milky Way, no individual particls can be distinguished in it." While this is a very precise definition, the pictures that accompany it are no help to me at all.

 

After seeing Darcy's post with the pictures of the Go Yoshihiro blade I was inspired to create this thread. So, onto my request:

 

Could anyone who wants to help, post pictures of both a nie deki blade and a nioi deki blade together so that I can use them as a reference for study. I would like to overcome this molehill once and for all. I feel it is greatly holding back my kantei skills (which are next to nothing). Looking forward to the pics!

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

 

Nioi:

 

 

 

Nie:

 

 

Edit.

 

This one should show nie better than the above one.

 

[Grey Doffin]

Syd,

The picture of nioi above does a good job of showing nioi but the one of nie doesn't show that feature as well. Darcy's recent post with pictures of his Go Yoshihiro: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4099 shows nie very clearly ("If You Like Nie", further down this forum).

Of course, not all swords with nie look like darcy's Go, and nie can be small (ko nie) or large (ara nie) but all nie is seen as individual crystals, not the undifferentiated cloud of nioi.

Nie and nioi deki is another matter. A sword in nioi deki can have nie and a sword in nie deki likely will have nioi. Here it is the crystalline structure that is the base of the hamon that determines the deki, not necessarily the most visible aspect of the hamon. This part of kantei can be very confusing, just like most everything else about these sharp objects we collect.

Grey

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Syd, these are Nie placed in the Ji. You should get them well with dimensions and

different polishing between kissaki and shinogi. Ted made a good job here.

P.S.

Not that you'll always find these dimensions....

 

[Rich Thomas]

Syd, This link might help...

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/hamon.html#nie/nioi

 

Also the book '100 Masterpieces from the collection of Dr W A Compton' has some good descriptions and macro pics of all 100 blades...shows nioi/nie and other activities really quite well.

 

Richard T