A beautiful patterned Edo? blade in Tachi mounting;Imperial use? From meteorites?

[redwoods]

Fake blade, etched pattern

The post is edited to discuss the koshirae only.

 

Dear All,

 

Greetings from Canada! I am new  and all my  limited  information about Nihonto are from internet.

Please share your thoughts , knowledge and comment.

 

The koshirae looks  elegant and concise. All fittings have a lot of Chinese characteristics. Red colored rayskin  scabbard  with 9 bats means "hong fu shou qi tian" ，"洪福壽齊天"in Chinese. The bat is not a simple bat, it has a longevity head, and a hidden monkey face, combines  auspicious meanings.

The tusba has a "Lou han" who tames the tiger without a fight.   Maybe the highest honor for a  warrior. Please note the philosophy here.

 

Both ends use horn material. The handle end has a white though line, means the blade is a sharp one，you can cut through your enemy.The scabbard end has a short white line, means  the opponent can not cut you through.   There are willow strips  decorated on the  outside of the handle and the scabbard,  which are rare to me.

The menuki on the handle also has a nice meaning: triple dragon courage,"三聯龍膽" in Chinese.

 

So, the blade is fake,  the red rayskin  koshirae seems pretty good, but a real koshirae can not protect a  fake blade.

 

Again, please share your thoughts , knowledge and comment.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[ChrisW]

With my knowledge of nihonto still being basic compared to the real veterans here, even I can spot that this is not of Japanese origin in any way. The steel alone appears to be damascus, which is not the way in which they produce swords. As you pointed out with the fitting, it is likely of Chinese origin. It also does not appear to have a true hamon and bears the tell-tale signs of acid etching. Something like this makes me feel like it was made within the last fifty years. The quality does not seem very high to me, the tang having a very dog-tailed appearance.

 

 

If I might make a suggestion, you should spend some money on books to familiarize yourself with nihonto before dropping money on a live blade. This forum probably has the best information found anywhere on the net, and the folk are super friendly as well! Once you're ready, buying a blade here is also very possible; benefits of being in a place where there's a lot of experts!

 

Welcome to the NMB!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Unfortunately this is a chinese replica sword, hopefully you did not pay too much for it and enjoy it as a display piece.

[redwoods]

Unfortunately this is a chinese replica sword, hopefully you did not pay too much for it and enjoy it as a display piece.

Thanks for your comment. The koshirae along indicts the blade is not a normal one, in my novice opinion

[redwoods]

With my knowledge of nihonto still being basic compared to the real veterans here, even I can spot that this is not of Japanese origin in any way. The steel alone appears to be damascus, which is not the way in which they produce swords. As you pointed out with the fitting, it is likely of Chinese origin. It also does not appear to have a true hamon and bears the tell-tale signs of acid etching. Something like this makes me feel like it was made within the last fifty years. The quality does not seem very high to me, the tang having a very dog-tailed appearance.

 

 

If I might make a suggestion, you should spend some money on books to familiarize yourself with nihonto before dropping money on a live blade. This forum probably has the best information found anywhere on the net, and the folk are super friendly as well! Once you're ready, buying a blade here is also very possible; benefits of being in a place where there's a lot of experts!

 

Welcome to the NMB!

Thanks for your comment and your welcome.

IMO, it is imported from Japan  for Chinese emperor . If as you said made in China, it serves the same purpose, for Chinese emperor. Pattern of this kind is super rare, because it is very difficult to achieve and scrap easy.

[Brian]

It is a fake. It is not made in Japan, and not made for any Chinese leader. It is a poor quality fake, with poor fake damascus pattern.
I am 110% sure of this. There is no doubt. Sorry.

[redwoods]

It is a fake. It is not made in Japan, and not made for any Chinese leader. It is a poor quality fake, with poor fake damascus pattern.

I am 110% sure of this. There is no doubt. Sorry.

Thanks for your comment. Do you notice how elegant it is ? In Chinese culture, the red color is basically reserved for Emperor use only.  This  koshirae  is covered in rayskin,  every grain  is dyed with red color  to be egg like  魚の卵, super rare and with great effort. Also, the mountain like pattern maybe a clever transform of Ayasugi hada to cater emperor's taste. It looks beautiful just like those in Shan Shui，（ Shan shui refers to a style of traditional Chinese painting that involves or depicts scenery or natural landscape）. Please check the attached blade pattern, I don't understand where the poor quality come from. 

[ChrisW]

Trust me, Brian knows what he's talking about. And to be brutally honest, look at how the dye job is regular. It is far from elegant, the tang is very crude. I doubt an emperor would take this as a gift. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this most definitely not on the high end of quality in my mind and most DEFINITELY NOT Japanese. They never made anything of damascus and anything even allegedly made of meteoric metal would have a far finer grain than this. You can see the Damascus grain in the pictures very easily.

[redwoods]

Trust me, Brian knows what he's talking about. And to be brutally honest, look at how the dye job is regular. It is far from elegant, the tang is very crude. I doubt an emperor would take this as a gift. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this most definitely not on the high end of quality in my mind and most DEFINITELY NOT Japanese. They never made anything of damascus and anything even allegedly made of meteoric metal would have a far finer grain than this. You can see the Damascus grain in the pictures very easily.

Thanks again for your opinion. The  blade seems have patterns of  all major  schools. That's why you think of damascus and for the emperor.  No need to do anything about the tang, the patterns extend from the blade is beautiful enough. And for the dye work, it is the smartest way to fight color fading. Please check this photo, does it look  like high end quality you are used to be now?

[ROKUJURO]

Dong,

how many authentic Japanese swords have you seen in hand so that you could compare? You may be impressed by this one, and if you like it, o.k. But it is not of Japanese origin and it is not made like Japanese swords are, not even close.

There is not much more to be said. 

[Geraint]

Dear Jean.

 

 

 

There is not much more to be said.

 

 

I very much fear that there may be.  You can take a horse to water........

 

All the best.

[raaay]

sorry here we go again politely    

[Jacques D.]

This sword is a bad fake, even machi are misplaced, nakago is badly done, hada is not a real one, fake hamon etc.

 

I think that a sword made for an emperor (there were really good chinese swordsmiths) would be perfectly done from the tip of the kissaki to the bottom of the nakago.   

 

Now you are not obliged to believe us but your sword is 100% fake...

[redwoods]

Dong,

 

how many authentic Japanese swords have you seen in hand so that you could compare? You may be impressed by this one, and if you like it, o.k. But it is not of Japanese origin and it is not made like Japanese swords are, not even close.

 

There is not much more to be said. 

Thanks for your comment. You can not judge this blade by normal  Nihonto standards. It is super rare, no bladesmith want do it or it is asking for bankruptcy. For this kind of patterns, defects can not be avoided  even today. Here is a youtube link for a 800 layers blade 21:18https://youtu.be/IEOU4V2o1pU?t=1278

[16k]

Yes, fake. Even the nakago is wrong, unbalanced in comparison to the blade. If you like it, it’s fine, but one thing is sure, it’s not Japanese.

[PNSSHOGUN]

You can delude yourself all you like but this is total junk.

[Ray Singer]

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html

[Guido]

The color reserved for the Chinese Emperor was yellow, not red - but I think they made an exception in this case to set it apart from the lesser swords made for the Son of Heaven. It’s obvious that this most breathtakingly beautiful sword was made with secret techniques; the smith - spirited away from Japan - was probably killed after making it, his body buried under the Great Wall to prevent that another supreme sword like it was ever made. If one looks closely, the forging pattern reveals the cleromancy from the I Ching - there is no other sword like it!

 

 

Are we done now?

[ChrisW]

Ha! Careful, sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet!

 

 

In all seriousness, if you bought this then you NEED to get your money back. You were very clearly taken. If you're seeking a proper endorsement, you won't find it here. Among high-quality Chinese swords, like Paul Chen, this blade is not. Yes, these are all opinions, but they are rooted in factual observations based on the quality of the blade. Deny it as you may, only a novice would be fooled.

 

Again, if you paid for this blade, you need to chase that seller down and demand a refund. Woe be to the person who tries to pass this for a real nihonto. The Japanese never have used Damascus, and this is in no shape or form meteoric iron. If it were, it would be signed, have fantastic providence, and likely be considered a national treasure and reside in Japan.

[Jacques D.]

Night and day... 

 

https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-31743.html

[redwoods]

You can delude yourself all you like but this is total junk.

Thank you. I  touched the blade  by my finger for the first time, I can feel  the edge is higher than the patterned side, it is  etched , it is true it is a fake blade.

[redwoods]

Ha! Careful, sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet!

 

 

In all seriousness, if you bought this then you NEED to get your money back. You were very clearly taken. If you're seeking a proper endorsement, you won't find it here. Among high-quality Chinese swords, like Paul Chen, this blade is not. Yes, these are all opinions, but they are rooted in factual observations based on the quality of the blade. Deny it as you may, only a novice would be fooled.

 

Again, if you paid for this blade, you need to chase that seller down and demand a refund. Woe be to the person who tries to pass this for a real nihonto. The Japanese never have used Damascus, and this is in no shape or form meteoric iron. If it were, it would be signed, have fantastic providence, and likely be considered a national treasure and reside in Japan.

Thank you very much.

[Ted Tenold]

I remember back in the days when I collected Militaria.  One of the dealers I visited often had a US Calvary bugle hanging from it's cord and tassle on the wall.  It had several bad dings and dent in the brass tubing an old white tag attached to it on which was written;

 

"US Cavaly Bugle.  Late 1800's.  This bugle was worn by one of George Custer's men during the Battle of Little Big Horn.  You can see where the horse stepped on it.  It must be true because the fella that sold it to me said so."

[Ken-Hawaii]

 

You can not judge this blade by normal  Nihonto standards

The problem is that YOU can't judge this blade by Nihonto standards, Dong. Please do some studying before you make comments on NMB.

 

Yes, the blade is fake, but touching your finger to it definitely isn't the way to judge that.

[Jamie]

This is fake as everyone else said.

[Brian]

Dong, I see you edited the first post to say "Fake blade, etched pattern. The post is edited to discuss the koshirae only."

Afraid the koshirae is as bad as the blade. Nothing is good there. The saya is poorly covered with same or shark skin, sanded down and dyed. Wrong shape. Tsuka shape is wrong. Fittings are poor.
Nothing is well done here.
 

[Greg F]

Definetely a poor quality fake. If i made it i would be proud but im a back yard knife maker for my own pleasure.

There are many many chinese made repro swords on ebay that are miles ahead of this in terms of quality blade and koshirae included. Dong you are going to be amazed when you begin to really see what genuine quality Nihonto looks like. Enjoy the ride.

 

Greg

[jt nesbitt]

Dang. I think I just lost my ranking as the plankton of the NMB food chain. Well, it was fun while it lasted....

 

Dong-

 On the recommendation of one of the great people here on the board (Ray Singer), I bought this book -

 

https://www.amazon.com/Kokan-Nagayama/dp/1568365810/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+connoisseurs+book+of+Japanese+swords&qid=1593199721&sr=8-1

 

It is a bit of a challenging read for a total noob, but I think the best one that I have when it comes to having a text that can be used practically when identifying stuff. 

 

Also - When buying your first piece, be sure that it has a Yellow NBTHK certificate that matches the Nakago (tang of the blade). That way you can be fairly certain that it is at least authentic. -- JT