BIG Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 Textbook Enju school shows masame hada.? Nihonto Club Germany members never saw any masame hada on any Enju blades. https://books.google.de/books?id=zPyswmGDBFkC&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=enju+school+hada&source=bl&ots=98dwlbaXP3&sig=ACfU3U38iGvDN-epomXuX4MvpVbUYYW4jA&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiam4OWrYjqAhXgShUIHbgADb0Q6AEwAHoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=enju%20school%20hada&f=false Best Quote
paulb Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 I have read this too in various texts and it suggests it shows the link to the Yamato origins of the founder. I confess I have not seen masame in any of the enju blades I have looked at in hand. They occasionally have some larger itame in addition but generally are tight ko-itame very much like Rai hada. 2 Quote
Jean Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 Never seen masame hada in Enju blades. Enju is an offshot of Yamashiro Rai. There are only two Rai smiths where masame can be found: Rai Kunitoshi and one of his sons : Ryokai 1 Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 One I have coveted for some time, Enju Kunihide: https://nihontou.jp/choice03/toukenkobugu/katana/769/00.html 1 Quote
16k Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 I’ve read many things in this book that left me perplexed when seeing real examples. I guess this is the limitation of a book. It only records the generalities and leaves aside the exceptions. Quote
Geraint Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 Dear John. I can certainly see why you like that one! However as a pupil of Masahide and a shinshinto smith I think his connection with the Enju school is more of an honorific than anything else. All the best. 1 Quote
paulb Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 Hi John, Sorry I didn't open the link but now I have I agree with Geraint. This smith was working about 450 years after the Enju school ceased production. Good sword and good smith just not an Enju school one Quote
b.hennick Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 I had a blade papered to Enjyu. It had what I thought scrap long chikei. I sold it in order to buy something very special. That blade ended up with juyo papers to Hosho. So, what I thought was chikei was masame hada. 8 Quote
paulb Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 I think I have shown them before but the images below show an enju blade with incredibly long and bright kinsuji and in areas almost sunagashi looking like masame in the hamon. That's about as close as I have seen to masame in Enju but based on Barry's experience they are obviously out there. 1 Quote
Surfson Posted June 20, 2020 Report Posted June 20, 2020 Barry, are you saying that the blade papered to Enju was subsequently repapered to Hosho and made juyo? is that a sad story for you or was the special blade worth the sacrifice? I love the activity in the ji of that blade. Quote
Kanenaga Posted June 20, 2020 Report Posted June 20, 2020 Does anyone know the name for those dark lines in the ji of Barry's blade? They seem much too wide to be layers of masame lamination. Quote
Surfson Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 Don't know what they are called, but one sees a similar effect on Uda and Norishige blades, though not in masame form, but rather matsukawa hada. Quote
paulb Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 I think they are formed from different types of steel with varying carbon content being combined in the jigane. You see it a lot in Northern province blades (such as Norishige) who are often described as having dark steel. These are not made of ji-nie as other activity such as chickei are 1 Quote
Jacques Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 9:29 AM, PNSSHOGUN said: One I have coveted for some time, Enju Kunihide: 06.jpg https://nihontou.jp/choice03/toukenkobugu/katana/769/00.html Shinshinto, i don't think that example is relevant However even if it's not a generality we can see some hada with a hint of masame in Enju school The right one has masame, the left one has ko itame nagare Quote
Jacques Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 9:25 AM, Jean said: Never seen masame hada in Enju blades. Enju is an offshot of Yamashiro Rai. There are only two Rai smiths where masame can be found: Rai Kunitoshi and one of his sons : Ryokai Rai Kunitsugu too. Quote
Keiji Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 I have read in several descriptions of Enju blades that have a nagare-masame hada. 1 Quote
Jussi Ekholm Posted June 22, 2020 Report Posted June 22, 2020 I believe many sources have nagare-masame as a trait for Enju as Francesco mentioned above. It is one of the difficult things as I think it can fluctuate, just a portion of hada flowing into masame can be described as nagare-masame. It is often said to be a trait often seen in Kyūshū swords (although of course it can be seen elsewhere too). Quote
Curran Posted June 22, 2020 Report Posted June 22, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 1:41 PM, b.hennick said: I had a blade papered to Enjyu. It had what I thought scrap long chikei. I remember you showing this blade to me in Tampa, and me telling you to buy it. Lovely blade. I am surprised you sold it. Quote
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