Unusual WW2 Sword Maker

[IJASWORDS]

Back in 2008, this sword was discussed in the translation section. Brian suggested then that it be posted in the military section for discussion. 

The inscription reads, (thanks Ray), Empire Cutlery Ltd, Ishitoku Shigeyuki. 

Ishitoku is an unknown swordsmith, and it appears Empire Cutlery made swords during WW2. 

The blade has hada, and looks water quenched. 

Does anyone have any information about this maker? 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

First I've heard of them, Neil, but thanks for posting. I'm filing swords with the shop name in the mei. Yours is the second now.

[16k]

Any idea where they were situated? They have typical Seki yasurime.

[Dave R]

That is one very nice sword.

[ROKUJURO]

  On 6/15/2020 at 11:13 PM, IJASWORDS said:

The inscription reads, (thanks Ray), Empire Cutlery Ltd, Ishitoku Shigeyuki. 

Ishitoku is an unknown swordsmith.....

ISHITOKU seems to be the family name, so perhaps a search for SHIGEYUKI will bring something up.

[David Flynn]

I can't see Shigeyuki, in the Mei?

[IJASWORDS]

David, I am going by a translation done on this sword in here in 2008. 

The "yuki" part is correct, image attached. 

If you have a different translation opinion, please help. 

[Bruce Pennington]

The second name on the other sword with a shop mei was said by the translation guys to be the polisher's name. Appearantly it is an old, widespread practice, that sometimes the polisher gets to put his mei along with the smith. May explain why you're not finding anything on him.

[David Flynn]

The last two kanji are, Tsukuru Kore (Respectfully made this).

[BANGBANGSAN]

Maybe we should look from a different angle.

石德調之。Seems to be Ishitoku adjusted this.

調 could be 調整 調准-Adjustment

This 石德 maybe just a craftsman made some adjustment for this sword instead of a professional swordsmith.And that's why can't find him in the Showa swordsmith list.

[SteveM]

We visited this cul-de-sac back in January

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/30891-unusual-mei/

[IJASWORDS]

Steve M, certainly is a cul-de-sac, but would great to reach some common consensus on translation. I am only working off what others, wiser than I, have quoted.  

[IJASWORDS]

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/2599-mei-help/  

This was also discussed in 2008, that is where Shigeyuki came from. 

[BANGBANGSAN]

  On 6/16/2020 at 11:50 PM, IJASWORDS said:

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/2599-mei-help/  

This was also discussed in 2008, that is where Shigeyuki came from. 

Neil

Take a look at my reply, and see what do you think about my idea about 調之

[IJASWORDS]

Trystan, a strong possibility. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's Guy's take on it, over at Warrelics. If he's unsure or confused, then it's anyone's guess!

 

"帝国刃物株式会社石徳調之

Teikoku Ha-mono Kabushikigaisha Ishitoku Shirabe-yuki???

Imperial Sword Co., Ltd. Ishitoku Shirabe

 

I cannot find a smith named 石徳 "Ishitoku" on Google or in Marcus Sesko's book.......

Wifie says 調之 is a given name. "That's the way I read 石徳調之", says she.

 

I asked if 調之 could be "prepared this" and she didn't think so; but ... she's not an expert in swords, etc. -- I had to explain to her that 刕 is the same as 州.

 

I think you'll need a 5th opinion.

 

-- Guy

 

Edit: 調 has several pronunciations .... naturally. 之 can also be "yuki" as a given name ... so, what (IF a given name!) are our possibilities? Tsugiyuki?

 

I hate all this guessing .......... I guess. (I need a drink right about now)"

 

I would recommend anyone with great search skills - check for the other double mei. There are some on NMB where the second mei was the polishers mei. If there are similarities with the last 2 kanji, that tells us something. If there are no similarities, then it may indicate this is a name.

[george trotter]

The character ISHI does not seem right to me..there is one stroke extra in the top section. It looks like combination of Shita/kuda over kuchi. I can't find any kanji such as this, but I think that extra stroke in the top part is no accident.

BTW TOKU can also be read NORI.

Regards,

[Bruce Pennington]

I don't know if this helps, but here is a picture of two blades with double mei. You can see the polisher mei is just his name at the end. If that is the pattern/practice, then it could mean this one is just a name, not "made by."

[BANGBANGSAN]

  On 6/17/2020 at 4:41 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

I don't know if this helps, but here is a picture of two blades with double mei. You can see the polisher mei is just his name at the end. If that is the pattern/practice, then it could mean this one is just a name, not "made by."

Both 研師-Polisher and 刀匠-Swordsmith has the title and full name written down.

I think my idea-調之 adjusted this make sense.

[Kiipu]

  On 6/17/2020 at 7:53 AM, george trotter said:

The character ISHI does not seem right to me. There is one stroke extra in the top section. It looks like combination of Shita/kuda over kuchi. I can't find any kanji such as this, but I think that extra stroke in the top part is no accident.

 

It is a variant of 石 with an additional stroke.  It can be found under radical 112 石, character number 3986, on page 787 of The New Nelson Japanese-English Character Dictionary.

[Bruce Pennington]

Neil,

 

Does this blade have any stamps?  The reason I ask, is that in one of Ohmura's discussions, he mentions "tosho mei with saka or na stamps" (these along with star-stamped blades are always gendaito, he says).

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 6/15/2020 at 11:13 PM, IJASWORDS said:

The inscription reads, (thanks Ray), Empire Cutlery Ltd, Ishitoku Shigeyuki. 

Ishitoku is an unknown swordsmith, and it appears Empire Cutlery made swords during WW2. 

The blade has hada, and looks water quenched. 

Expand  

Neil,

 

Does this blade have any stamps?  The reason I ask, is that in one of Ohmura's discussions, he mentions "tosho mei with saka or na stamps" (these along with star-stamped blades are always gendaito, he says).

[Toryu2020]

I would stick with this being a name, although unusual, Ishitoku Shigeyuki makes sense - "adjusted this" does not. mho

-t