Gassan School

[Andrew Ickeringill]

And so these would've been made by someone else I believe.

 

Foiled habaki are much more difficult to make than solid, and hence more desirable/expensive than solid. So I think it's safe to assume that if Sadakatsu was proficient at gold foiling, he wouldn't have been risking his life with the gold wash process.

[Jacques D.]

10 hours ago, Ian B3HR2UH said:

Except when it comes to Gassan Sadakatsu pieces !

Ian Brooks

For my personal knowledge (Gassan school is one of the schools I know best) do you have a reliable source to share ?

[Alex A]

21 hours ago, Jacques D. said:

The habaki have in general nothing to do with the swordsmiths

 

I remember looking at the works of Enomoto Sadayoshi and Son.  Habaki were the same on many swords though think these were later swords.

 

Whilst i don't have a clue whether they made their own or not (wouldn't be surprised if they did), smiths do get into habits of using the same version. Some here from both smiths. 

 

So, in a way, Habaki and smith can be linked.

 

 

http://www.ricecracker.com/japanese_swords/tanto/st2.htm

http://sanmei.com/contents/media/A72895_S8890_PUP_E.htm

https://www.samuraimuseum.jp/shop/product/modern-Japanese-sword-shirasaya-katana-gendaitosigned-by-yusuishin-sadayoshi/

 

 

 

 

[Bryce]

G'day Jacques,

The majority of Showa era blades by Sadakatsu have this style of habaki. This includes blades housed in their original boxes. At the very least, this suggests that Sadakatsu preferred to sell his blades with this style of habaki. It is a commonly held opinion that he made these habaki himself, but I don't know of any definitive source. Why would he be so attached to this one style of habaki? The logical explanation is that he made them himself and they are one of his trademarks.

 

Andrew, do you know for sure that Japanese craftsmen used the fire gilding method which used mercury to make gold plate? I have read that Asian craftsmen may have used a different method which didn't use mercury.

 

Cheers,

Bryce

[IJASWORDS]

Bryce, the HABAKI on my 1933 SADAKATSU. The sides are flat, and the edges are in the GASSAN style. 

[Franco D]

On 11/9/2022 at 10:05 PM, Andrew Ickeringill said:

Foiled habaki are much more difficult to make than solid, and hence more desirable/expensive than solid.

 

 

The process for making a foiled habaki versus a solid habaki involves different steps. The foil involves more labor and can be difficult. I have to disagree on which is more desirable while recognizing that that can be subjective. And, sorry, making a solid gold one or two piece habaki will be more expensive.

http://www.cgfinearts.com/habaki_work.cfm

 

Respectfully,

 

 

[DoTanuki yokai]

Maybe they liked the price and style of this Habaki and it was made always for them by someone else ? 
I think it is common for smiths to work with the same guys together for decades. 

[Andrew Ickeringill]

3 hours ago, Franco D said:

 

 

The process for making a foiled habaki versus a solid habaki involves different steps. The foil involves more labor and can be difficult. I have to disagree on which is more desirable while recognizing that that can be subjective. And, sorry, making a solid gold one or two piece habaki will be more expensive.

http://www.cgfinearts.com/habaki_work.cfm

 

Respectfully,

 

 

I was referring to gold foil habaki vs solid silver/copper habaki, didn't think I'd have to clarify that, of course a solid gold habaki would be more expensive than a gold foil habaki. As for which is more desirable, I suppose that could be subjective to some.

[Jacques D.]

12 hours ago, Bryce said:

G'day Jacques,

The majority of Showa era blades by Sadakatsu have this style of habaki. This includes blades housed in their original boxes. At the very least, this suggests that Sadakatsu preferred to sell his blades with this style of habaki. It is a commonly held opinion that he made these habaki himself, but I don't know of any definitive source. Why would he be so attached to this one style of habaki? The logical explanation is that he made them himself and they are one of his trademarks.

 

Andrew, do you know for sure that Japanese craftsmen used the fire gilding method which used mercury to make gold plate? I have read that Asian craftsmen may have used a different method which didn't use mercury.

 

Cheers,

Bryce

Many thanks Bryce

[Andrew Ickeringill]

11 hours ago, Bryce said:

G'day Jacques,

The majority of Showa era blades by Sadakatsu have this style of habaki. This includes blades housed in their original boxes. At the very least, this suggests that Sadakatsu preferred to sell his blades with this style of habaki. It is a commonly held opinion that he made these habaki himself, but I don't know of any definitive source. Why would he be so attached to this one style of habaki? The logical explanation is that he made them himself and they are one of his trademarks.

 

Andrew, do you know for sure that Japanese craftsmen used the fire gilding method which used mercury to make gold plate? I have read that Asian craftsmen may have used a different method which didn't use mercury.

 

Cheers,

Bryce

I'm not sure of the exact technique used Bryce, but I've had a conversation about it with a smith who uses the same technique on his own "home-made" habaki. Because he's not trained in habaki making, he doesn't have the skills to foil, and said the wash technique was the only way he could apply gold, which was very dangerous... but in typical Japanese fashion, he didn't seem to care much, his health is secondary to his work.

 

I thought it was common knowledge that Sadakatsu made these habaki. I've had discussions on this topic with former mukansa shiroganeshi Miyajima-sensei, as well as students of the Gassan line. I would consider that a definitive source, but others may only consider that hearsay, all depends on perspective.

[Brian]

Not really. Definitive is definitive, I would consider your statement as such.
Thanks for sharing the info with us Andrew. Always good to read, and we are lucky to have an "inside" opinion.
 

[Franco D]

7 hours ago, Andrew Ickeringill said:

I was referring to gold foil habaki vs solid silver/copper habaki, didn't think I'd have to clarify that

 

My oversight ...

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

Here is another habaki, which you wouldn't call a classic Gassan habaki, but I believe it was probably made by Gassan Sadakatsu. it is on a Sadakatsu blade dated Taisho 10. It is solid silver gilt, with a bamboo fence motif. 

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

You often see it written that Gassan Sadakatsu was a master of the Bizen, Yamato and Soshu traditions as well as the Gassan ayasugi. In his Showa period examples, ayasugi is most common followed by Yamato and Soshu, but I am yet to see a Bizen example. After researching examples of Gassan Sadakazu's work, I noticed that Sadakatsu went thru a Bizen phase in the late Meiji and Taisho periods when he was making Daisaku blades for Sadakazu. Here is an example of Sadakatsu's Bizen work from 1921, three years after his father's death. It looks to be imitating an Ichimonji hamon. The jihada was described as koitame, but I think if you look very closely it is actually very fine masame.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[David Flynn]

What you are seeing as Masame,  could be Chikei.

[Bryce]

G'day David,

There are chikei, but I think they are following the underlying masame structure.

Cheers,

Bryce

[David Flynn]

Maybe Itame Nagare.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

Here is a comparison photo with another Sadakatsu which is definitely very fine masame. 1921 on left and 1940 on right.

Cheers,

Bryce

[Bryce]

Here is a shot of the hakikake boshi of the 1921 Sadakatsu.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[1kinko]

Sorry to be so late to the subject of habaki, but the price of gold was about $35/oz until around 1967. Time vs material cost was surely an issue.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

Gassan Sadakatsu was very consistent in the blades he produced, but his style did change over time. Below is a photo showing three blades dated from top to bottom - 1921, 1940 and 1943. (Thank you to AOIJapan for the images.) His earlier blades produced in the Taisho period tend to be slimmer, shorter and straighter than his Showa period examples. Tsurata san has the theory this was because many were used as parade sabres. They usually have a nagasa in the range of 64-68cm, with a sori of 1.4 - 1.7cm and a kissaki around 2.5cm. Many are done in Bizen den. In contrast his Showa period examples usually have a nagasa of 67 - 70cm, sori of 1.8 - 2.2cm and a 3.0cm kissaki. The majority are done in ayasugi and masame. All of the 1943 dated examples I have seen are similar, but have a slightly longer kissaki around 3.5cm.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[John C]

Could this be due to military standards? I'm sure you have considered that. What is your theory as to why he changed?

John C.

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

From my observations Meiji & Taisho era blades certainly tend to have a particularly slender and delicate Sugata.

 

Below are blades from this period:

Left to right:

Meiji - 1896, 1904

Taisho - 1915

Showa - 1926 (this was made specifically as a Kamakura era style court Tachi)

 

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

I don't think it can be anything to do with military regulations. You find a very wide range of blades in military mounts. I guess it probably just comes down to the fashion of the day, but Sadakatsu was certainly welded on to his Showa period sugata.

Cheers,

Bryce

[Toryu2020]

Apologies if this was posted before - could this be the elusive "Masamune forging"

 

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[Bryce]

G'day Thomas,

Thanks for posting this. It took me a while to find the time to have a good look at this. Is this a Masamune utsushi forged by Sadakazu?

Cheers,

Bryce

[David Flynn]

Looks like Mino den, to me.  Any better photo's?

[Toryu2020]

I am pretty sure it is one of his Utsushi - sorry all the info I have is in that link...

[Rafuino]

It seems most of the posts on this thread were from Sadakatsu and it seems definitively that he had his own habaki style. Was there a habaki style typical of Sadakazu (1836-1918)?

[Bryce]

G'day Andrew,

I haven't found any evidence that Sadakazu preferred a certain style of habaki, unlike his son Sadakatsu.

Cheers,

Bryce