John A Stuart Posted October 21, 2008 Report Posted October 21, 2008 Hi Guys, I am not familiar with this term. Do I read it right? 大段平 Odabira, same as shoto or wakizashi? John Quote
Nobody Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 That usually reads Ô-dambira (大段平), which means a long Dambira. 段平 also reads Dampira or Dabira. The sound was originally Dabira-hiro, which meant a sword with wide blade. Quote
John A Stuart Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Posted October 22, 2008 Thank you Koichi san. Does it refer to tanto carried before the wakizashi was developed or strictly a sugata applicable to any sword with that construction? John Quote
Nobody Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 I do not think that the term is used for tanto, but I am not sure about that. AFAIK, mighty shapes with O-kissaki such as swords of Nambokucho or Bakumatsu are sometimes called O-dambira. However; I could be wrong. Quote
Markus Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 John A Stuart said: Does it refer to tanto carried before the wakizashi was developed or strictly a sugata applicable to any sword with that construction? John I know this term from the descriptions of Shôsô´in blades, where 15 unmounted blades (musô-tô, ç„¡è˜åˆ€) in hira-zukuri (one of them in kiriha-zukuri) measuring about 1,5 shaku (54,5 cm) are described as "ô-dabira" (大ã ã³ã‚‰). As Koichi-san stated, they are very similar to Nanbokuchô ô-wakizashi in hira-zukuri and the like and rather not applied on tantô. Quote
Jacques Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Hi, Kanzan sensei says that (Japanese sword page 60): Quote Nanbokucho period: The short and narrow tanto disappears, giving way to a thick, wide, curved type of companion sword called Ôdabira or Ôdanbira. Maybe Odanbira is synonymous of Sunnobi Quote
Markus Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 Jacques D. said: Maybe Odanbira is synonymous of Sunnobi I think the term has not a clear definition and we should bear in mind the connotation - as Koichi-san stated correctly - that a ô-danbira or danbira stands just for a wide/broad blade, because the term "wakizashi" was yet not in use. So using this term is in my opinion a kind of getting out of the way not to use an uncommon term for that time and on the other hand, don´t go down to the last detail, i.e. describing the sword in its function "uchigatana", "koshigatana" and the like. If I had to make a description, I would probably read as follows: "Describing a wide/broad bare blade, usually in hira-zukuri, which measures from about the length of a sunnobi-tantô up to an ô-wakizashi." Quote
John A Stuart Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Posted October 22, 2008 That is where I was at, a shoto of particular style. Thank guys. John Quote
Jean Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 http://www.sho-shin.com/naotane.htm Quote
John A Stuart Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Posted October 22, 2008 Hi Jean, I see in the description terms like o-wakizashi and o-tanto are used. Supports above descriptions I guess, eh? John Quote
Nobody Posted October 22, 2008 Report Posted October 22, 2008 John A Stuart said: That is where I was at, a shoto of particular style. Thank guys. John As I said before, I do not think so. Ref. è»åˆ€èº«ã®ç ”究 (Research of the Gunto Blade) by Shibata Ka (柴田果) http://www.k3.dion.ne.jp/~j-gunto/gunto_107.htm Quote 刀ã®åž‹ã¨ã—ã¦ä¸€ç•ªæ–¬å‘³ã®å‹ã‚ŒãŸã‚‚ã®ã¯ã€ç›¸å·žå‚³ã®ã‚‚ã®ã§ã‚ã‚Šã¾ã™ã€‚ãã‚Œã¯ä¿—ã«è¨€ãµå¤§æ®µå¹³(ãŠãŠã ã‚“ã´ã‚‰)ã§ã‚ã‚Šã¾ã—ã¦åã‚Šæµ…ãã€èº«å¹…廣ãã€é‡ãè–„ãã€éŽ¬é«˜ãã€éŽ¬å¹…ç‹ãã€å¹³è‚‰å°‘ãªãã€å…ˆèº«å¹…細らãšã€åˆ‡å…ˆå»¶ã³ã€ãµãら枯れã€ã¨ã„ãµã®ãŒæŽŸã¨ãªã£ã¦å±…ã‚Šã¾ã™ã€‚ The blades of Soshu-den showed the keenest shape for cutting. The shape is vulgarly called O-dambira, whose characteristics include shallow Sori, wide blade, thin Kasane, thick Shinogi, narrow Shinogi-ji, thin Hiraniku, O-kissaki (?), and Fukura-kareru. Quote
John A Stuart Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Posted October 22, 2008 OK, I get it now A very specific type of sword. Thank you. John Quote
Nobody Posted October 23, 2008 Report Posted October 23, 2008 There are brief　descriptions about Odanbira in Late Kamakura and Nambokucho Era sections. Ref. Japanese Swords in Samurai Wiki http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index. ... ese_Swords Quote This shape looks like the refined one of the first stage of Kamakura, but Kissaki in this period is bigger and the center of Sori moved up. In this way, if the edge became to be thin, strength of the blade decrease. Therefore, you have to make Mihaba wide and if Mihaba become wide, Kissaki become to be bigger. The peak like this change is Odanbira in the next Northern and Southern Dynasties. Quote
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