Oldest piece of Japanese art

[Frank Reile]

Thank you Piers, that was very informative, very nice wakizashi by the way.

 

Frank R.

[Wayben]

I think this is the earliest blade that I have.  Mumei Shikkake School katana, TH papered,  early/mid 1300's.

 

[16k]

I guess the debate would be open between those two:

[ROKUJURO]

  On 5/8/2020 at 5:50 AM, hobnails said:

Hi his is my oldest piece a koto tanto, it has a nagasa of 368mm and the kasane is 6mm not sure of exact age.

As it is more than 303 mm long, it is now ranked as WAKIZASHI.

[Jussi Ekholm]

  On 5/8/2020 at 5:50 AM, hobnails said:

Hi his is my oldest piece a koto tanto, it has a nagasa of 368mm and the kasane is 6mm not sure of exact age.

 

Hello Chris unfortunately the one side of mei seems too far gone for me to guess about the signature of the smith but I would guess the date to be □享二二年八月日 which could be Eikyō 永享 (1429-1441) or Chōkyō 長享 (1487-1489). But considering Chōkyō only had 3 years (as I do believe this is dated 4th year as it has double 二) and also looking at the size and shape I'd think Eikyō as the better guess from those 2, so with that line of thought I'd guess it could be dated 1432.

 

Seems to be very interesting wakizashi.

[Jean]

Juyo Ryokai. It has a papered handachi koshirae with a wooden lacquered tsuba. Late Kamakura, around 1290/1300. Interesting, the blade was in old shirasaya with a sayagaki to Ryokai when submitted to juyo shinsa.

one of Ryokai kantei point is masame rolling along the hamon, like in Naoe Shizu school, it is a common kantei point he shared with his father, Rai Kunitoshi. This sword has also a midare utsuri.

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/17414-achieved-collection-gokaden/page-2

[Ray Singer]

Not the oldest Japanese sword I have owned, but the oldest sword still in my collection. Bitchu Ko-Aoe.

 

少磨上無銘也 但シ茎ハ舊態ヲ残セリ 年代鎌倉前期也 姿形優美

亦地刃古雅有之而同派ノ特色ヲ明示シ滋味掬スベシ 珍重

 

Slightly shortened and mumei. However, the nakago retains its original traces. Era; early Kamakura. The blade shape is elegant. And its Ji-Ha shows the elegance of antiquity. It clearly shows the characteristics of the school and its goodness should be appreciated. Be prized.

 

[b.hennick]

Thanks Jean! You gave me a good reason to reread the thread. Are you missing any one blade more than the rest?

[Katsujinken]

Honma Junji says Enbun (~1356), and I'm certainly not going to argue with him!

 

直江志津

[paulb]

Hi Ray,

As a lover of Aoe work I couldnt help but love your Aoe blade. I think there is something very special about Aoe and your blade helps confirm that view. Congratulations and enjoy it

[ROKUJURO]

A small and rather unimposing MUMEI YAMAKICHIBEI school TSUBA, probably end MUROMACHI era.



 

I was told it is depicting symbols from the incense game of GENJI MONOGATARI, chapter 44 (TAKEGAWA), showing a MON (or a symbol of the I GING oracle, No. 44), and a smoke cloud from the incense.

 

It seems there is a related theme from painter WATANABE SHIKO, and a woodblock print by Kunisada II Utagawa (1823-1880).

 

Dimensions: 70 x 69 mm, thickness is ca. 4 mm.

[dwmc]

I'm not sure of the age of this mumei Kyo sukashi tsuba. It is somewhat interesting in the fact that at some point it was damaged. The damage its self is not of particular interest other than it appears at the time of impact, the larger sakura blossom broke open and reclosed like a steel trap. On closer inspection, I noticed the blossom had trapped a small piece of what looks to be silk cloth. Its a small piece of thread a bright iridescent green in color. 

If at some point I can get close up photo, I will post it.

 

 

Dave M.

[dwmc]

Additional photo of Kyo tsuba and Samurai pointing at bird. I'm not qualified to judge the age of either, but suspect their the oldest I own.

 

Also tried to capture a picture of silk thread...

 

Dave M.

[ROKUJURO]

Dave,

the photos are not very clear, but are you sure about the damaged TSUBA being a KYO SUKASHI?

[MauroP]

Here below four tsuba I presume from Muromachi age: Ōnin, ko-kinkō, kagamishi (maybe) and Kamakura (just my guess). Looking forward your confirmation  and an estimation of their age.

[dwmc]

  On 5/10/2020 at 10:58 PM, ROKUJURO said:

Dave,

 

the photos are not very clear, but are you sure about the damaged TSUBA being a KYO SUKASHI?

No Jean, I'm not really sure. I did a bit of research several years ago and Kyo sukashi was about as close as I could determine!

 

By no means definite...

 

Dave M.

[johnnyi]

Mauro, those tsuba are all awesome! I wonder regarding your Onin, since it is thought that 

three row of zogan is younger than four row, then your five row is older still??

[MauroP]

Hi Johnny,  not sure the "number of rows" theory could be shared by Japanese scholars.

Anyway this one from "Tanoshi Shinchū Zōgan Tsuba: 100 Tsuba" by Ōtani Sadao has 6 rows of ten-zōgan...

[johnnyi]

Thanks Mauro. Interesting tsuba!  I was referring previously to Torigoye and Robert Haynes notes regarding the rows of ten zogan; "..early style has four rows of low brass dots,...later style there are but three..".   I don't know if the row "rule applies at just the round ones or ones like yours and after seeing your new one, doubt it does. .     Thanks  J

[Jean]

I don’t miss any blade, Barry, but I can assure you that all my friends who got one, are more than pleased to get and cherish them.

 

After 6 years, it was time to pass them and have advanced collectors enjoying them. Jeremy, Ray and Paul can testify that for a while, each blade were or are still they favorite and when you know their collections, that means something.

 

But no, I miss none of them and I am more than glad to have my friends benefit from them

[Ray Singer]

What Jean said

 

I know where these swords went, all to friends, and they have gone to good homes where they are deeply enjoyed by their new owners (including me).

[paulb]

second the above

[Fuuten]

After reading through this topic again I'm wondering if the owner of the ko-hoki that was on Darcy's site some time ago is a member here, pretty sure that would take the cake.

[Ganko]

Here is an item I picked up on the shoreline in Hakata area around 1969.  A Jomon Period magatama, from about 1000 BCE.

 

[Fuuten]

  On 5/13/2020 at 6:11 PM, Ganko said:

Here is an item I picked up on the shoreline in Hakata area around 1969.  A Jomon Period magatama, from about 1000 BCE.

 

DSC03989.JPGDSC03990.JPGDSC03991.JPG

Even older, more ancient!

 

Coincidentally, i read up one those artifacts - Matagama not too long ago. Very nice.

[DoTanuki yokai]

Sukesada Wakizashi ~Muromachi

 

very experimental photo setups :D

[16k]

  On 5/16/2020 at 10:41 PM, DoTanuki yokai said:

Sukesada Wakizashi ~Muromachi

 

very experimental photo setups :D

Not bad! I wish I could take pictures like that!

[kissakai]

 Anyone have old F/K, menuki etc

Also expected some old pottery

[Dave R]

  On 5/17/2020 at 9:32 PM, kissakai said:

 Anyone have old F/K, menuki etc

Also expected some old pottery

 

 Hard to confidently date stuff like that without papers!

[kissakai]

An honest opion is fine as not everything can have papers but seasons collectors will have a fair idea