double ring yoroi

[YOJIMBO]

Hi

what was the name of that clan ? 

[Shogun8]

Hi Simon,

 

This armour is from the Wakisaka clan.

[YOJIMBO]

I've seen it somewhere, but I don't remember where. It also has corrugated paint.

[uwe]

I agree with John, althought this mon was used by several families!

The "paint" is typical for this armor. It is said, that only 18 specimens are extant today, scattered over the whole world. I was lucky enough to be able to examine two of them and unfortunately, fell in love imediately....until today

 

[YOJIMBO]

better pictures

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p761076159

[uwe]

Simon,

 

I think this kind of urushi is called shibo- nuri and the technique to make a wave pattern on it, is called seigaiha-nuri 青海波塗.

 

This particular pattern might be connected with Wakisaka Yasuharu (脇坂 安治) (1554 – September 26, 1626). He was from Awaji island, so this may explain the use of the waves in the lacquer of their armour......possibly represents water?

[YOJIMBO]

is it one of the 18 -19 ? 

Apparently we all have different tastes. What is so interesting and special about it?

[Guido]

This armor was already discussed on FB - it is thought to have been worn at Sekigahara.

[YOJIMBO]

it is thought to have been worn at Sekigahara.

who says that?

[Guido]

who says that?

 

Maybe there are people on the NMB who don‘t mind your constant rudeness and sense of entitlement - I‘m not among them.

[YOJIMBO]

Maybe there are people on the NMB who don‘t mind your constant rudeness and sense of entitlement - I‘m not among them.

Your mistake. If you say something, prove it with facts. Blank unsubstantiated claims are useless.

Your attack instead of giving an argument is stupid.

 

So again: who and where claims it was in the war? add link.

[Guido]

 

Your mistake. If you say something, prove it with facts. Blank unsubstantiated claims are useless.

Your attack instead of giving an argument is stupid.

 

So again: who and where claims it was in the war? add link.

 

 

QED

[YOJIMBO]

that's exactly what I thought 

[Brian]

Simon,
Guido seldom if ever gives info that cannot be proven. His background and contacts in Japan mean he has access to the right info from the right people.
Not to say he shouldn't substantiate (I'd also be interested Guido) but the fact is he's one of the guys I don't question when he presents something.
FYI..take it or leave it. I am not looking for an argument.

[YOJIMBO]

Brian,

that you believe: that one lady was talking ... blah blah blah ... it's your business.

I demand evidence, otherwise it's just bullshit, bullshit and bullshit.

I know exactly where it was talked about on Facebook and there is not a single mention of what he is saying.

Your behavior creates disinformations .

 

Give me proof and I'll apologize. Otherwise, I expect it from you. 

 

p.s. Doesn't your cover happen to have anything to do with the fact that you want to go to Tokyo, so somehow someone like him suits you?

[Jon Masutatsu]

I have followed the auction of the Wakisaka armour out of interest since Dave Thatcher showed me his example back in the UK.

Congratulations to the winner of this historically important armour ! Also I noticed that the hanpo on the recently sold armour is missing

and I know for a fact that Dave has in his possesion two of the hanpo that belong to these armours.

So who ever is the new proud owner now knows where to go to complete his gusoku !

 

Jon

[Guido]

(I'd also be interested Guido)

 

Brian, I’m kind of torn between providing information for the interested, general readership, and appearing to reward the outrageous behavior of someone who comes here under an alias to gather information for his commercial interests, especially since he’s guilty of doing exactly what he calls me/us out for, i.e. clamming up when asked specific questions.

 

First of all, please re-read my initial post:

 

- it is thought to have been worn at Sekigahara.

 

I didn’t make a claim anywhere, I just reported what I read (and what I think to be likely). This suit of armor was discussed in at least three FB groups that I know of, and since “Simon” claims he read them, it begs the question why he a) came here to ask about the clan and lacquer, and b) why he conveniently omits this post (and its follow-up) in one of the English speaking groups:

 

I understand that you've mentioned this suit is very likely to have been at Sekigahara if I recall correctly.

 

So, Sekigahara wasn’t mentioned anywhere, huh?

 

Having said all that, it’s a historical fact (and easy to research) that this armor is one of 18 that were made for the Wakisaka 脇坂 clan, and that are known to have been worn at the battles of Shizugatake and Sekigahara.

 

Do we have irrefutable proof? No, of course not; I wasn’t there to provide an eyewitness account, and there are no photos. It’s possible that the samurai who was supposed to wear this specific armor sat the battle out because he got a deferment for education, or a medical waiver because of bone spurs. Who knows? But if I was a betting man, I would put my money on it having seen combat.

 

I’m now bowing out of this thread - I don't come here to be insulted by a troll - but not before congratulating the new owner on the purchase of a historically important armor (Sekigahara or not), and making a sound decision without going to FB for advice, or asking sneaky questions on the NMB. I hope he and Dave can overcome their differences, so that the hanbō and gosoku are finally reunited.

[YOJIMBO]

who says that?

Well, you can write for a long time, but there is no answer.

My question was: Who on FB claimed that THIS ( not another or similar ) armor was at war ?

ich kann es dir auf deutsch schreiben falls erforderlich

[Luc T]

Shibo nuri. Zenon Vandamme and Robert Soanes use this technique perfecly Zenon once restored an item for me 25 years ago, no difference visible. Btw, the Horai used this technique also.

[Justin Grant]

Photos of the texture. This is the one I owned, now owned by Dave.

 

 

As for the history of all "18 known armors", there is a museum in Japan that has one, and the history of these special armors. I don't have the text handy, but not my job to convince anyone of anything.