Niji mei Kanemoto info

[doomsdaymachine]

Just picked up a katana in nice t98 mounts with an old blade on the cheap! Like to get some info if at all possible. Signed with a 2 character KaneMoto, and definitely not THAT Kanemoto. Does anyone have info on other Kanemoto that signed like this? Looks mino, with a loose sanbonsugi.

 

edited to add: It's looong, too. 28" nagasa, exactly.

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Perhaps Gimei but certainly Mino-Den.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Agreed. Looks pretty decent.

[doomsdaymachine]

So, likely gimei as opposed so some other Kanemoto? Bummer, but not a big one. I paid less for this thing than a cheap Paul Chen sword. Worth a polish or appreciate as is? I know I probably won't recoup the cost of a polish, but it's hard to see anything as it is now.

 

Couple more photos. Numbers matching, but missing one seppa.

 

[Surfson]

I would study it before making conclusions.  The hamon that appears to be sanbonsugi is in the style of Kanemoto.

[SAS]

Lots of Mino Kanemotos, don't give up  yet, as Robert said.

[Bryce]

G'day Reggie,

 

That looks like a very nice type 94 shin gunto with rare pinned kabutogane. Check out the "Pinned Kabutogane on Type 94" thread on the Military Swords forum.

 

Cheers,

Bryce

[Lance]

Looks to be a well made sword, nice overall shape and bohi,  I'd be happy finding it for such a price as a shin gunto example.

I don't know where you live but it looks like it's in good enough condition to submit to one of the NTHK shinsa next time (if) they hold one in the US. 

Another thing to consider for your own enjoyment,  "out of the woodwork swords"  weren't always stored properly,  so just a couple months of oil and light cleaning on a blade that hasn't seen any oil for decades can make a big difference.  Apply oil, clean off (maybe use uchiko)  and reapply oil  when you take it out to study/look at,   I've picked up swords at gun shows or flea markets and after after a couple weeks a  blade that seemed somewhat "gray" brightened up and features more visible,  even without uchiko.  

 

Regards,

Lance

[Ken-Hawaii]

It would probably need a polish before it's accepted by shinsa, unless NTHK has really lowered its standards. So, new habaki & shirasaya, too. Still worth it?

[Lance]

Hi Ken, I've submitted a couple swords that weren't in full polish  that passed, and  and seen many other swords in the US  with NTHK papers,  in person and on dealer sites in similar condition,    If I had to guess I think most swords submitted to the NTHK shinsas held in the US, the bulk are probably not freshly polished.  The point level might be less than fully restored  but it's a cost effective way to get a judgement  to help decide if a polish and shira saya is worth it.  I don't think the standards lowered so much as they saw a need  (or opportunity) to help US collectors (and US dealers)  put more swords in front of knowledgeable eyes that  might not ordinarily get sent to Japan.  

 

Regards,

Lance

[doomsdaymachine]

Robert, Steve, thanks for that. I'll keep looking around. I have a couple of older books, but I can't read Japanese, so I'd just be looking at pretty pictures. Any suggestions for research materials?

 

Bryce, thanks! I didn't even notice that. Glad I posted the pics. That thread is interesting. So this isn't a type 98, it's an early type 94? I noticed right away that it had the sukashi variant of tsuba and the ashi is really forward, but didn't think anything of it since it lacked the second ashi.

 

Lance, I'm definitely happy with the find. Be interested in checking out what experienced folks have to say about it in hand. I am in Southern California, near San Bernardino. I know there's a show that happens up in San Fran every year. Would that be my best bet? Also, I have put some oil on it since photographing it, and I have some good uchiko somewhere. I need to find it, though. Be interesting to see if I get some clarity over time!

 

Ken, I have a vague idea of the cost of a polish, like $100 an inch, give or take? So I know at least a little of what to expect. But a habaki and shirasaya I don't really know about. I guess I wouldn't know if any of that was worth it until I got it looked at. Wouldn't want to put a couple grand into something that didn't warrant it. Maybe a window?

[Lance]

Hi Reggie,

San Francisco show would be a good idea, I believe it's one of the biggest sword shows in the US and there should be plenty of knowledgeable people there. 

 

Regards,

Lance  

[16k]

Lots of Mino Kanemotos, don't give up  yet, as Robert said.

Was about to say that. Not necessarily Gimei. Mino den by A Kanemoto if not THE Kanemoto. Nice blade anyway.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Yes, really nice sword altogether, those mounts are very nice.

[Alex A]

Limited info available but looks interesting.

 

Could you take some pics of the full blade please, without the habaki, and clear pic of the nakago.

 

Bo-hi suggests a decent blade, long, Kiri yasurime by the looks of it.

 

Ps, in one of the shots there appears to be a bit of rust under the habaki, that needs looking at.

[doomsdaymachine]

Thanks, gents! This is turning out to be quite a bit of fun.

 

Alex, I'll see what I can do. What appears to be rust is actually my current headscratcher. I think it's paint, or some such nonsense. Some of it came off when I gave it a clean and oil. My best guess is someone at some point covered all the metal, including the habaki, with this weird, brick colored paint. There is a little bit of it left around some of the other metal fittings.

 

Also, the habaki seems to be pretty well stuck on. Any advice on getting it off without hurting anything?

[Blazeaglory]

A good way to check which Kanemoto would be to check the uniformity of the "3 ridges". Earlier (1st and 2nd) Kanemoto hamon was irregular Sanbon-sugi with later generations becoming more uniform with every 3rd peak raised. The younger the sword, the more uniformity. Also, i don't think early Kanemoto smiths made many Nihonto with Bohi. So if it's not gimei and it is an early Kanemoto, it is a rare find indeed.

 

More than likely it's a Mino blade with a false signature. That in itself is not a problem and worth a polish and a possible removal of the mei but i would at least try to find out if it's genuine first.

 

All in all it looks like a very decent blade! Congratulations!

[doomsdaymachine]

BIG PROBLEM! Tried the hot water habaki removal method to no avail, and discovered in the process that the habaki has been SOLDERED TO THE BLADE. God, this is maddening... Any suggestions? Seems to only be on one side. Material is light grey, like silver solder or electrical solder or something. Hamon runs right to the solder but doesn't seem to fade, so I'm assuming it's a relatively low temp solder.

[Alex A]

Hi Reggie, i was just about to suggest some thin type of oil, but solder is a new one to me.

[doomsdaymachine]

Here are some shots. The nakago side is unmolested. Seems to only be in a couple spots. Like I said, the hamon looks completely unaffected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ed Harbulak]

Are your sure it's solder and not some kind of epoxy? Many amateurs want to "fix" things but don't have the necessary tools or equipment for soldering so use epoxy instead.  

[ChrisW]

Oof. That is horrifying. I don't think its irreversible, but I would be afraid that the hamon is damaged. I believe that is probably silver solder, so removal shouldn't be too difficult?

[doomsdaymachine]

Ed, I'm pretty sure it's solder. Nice and silver and hateful.

 

Chris, I imagine it should clear off without much trouble if polished, and if I have a new habaki made, I won't be heartbroken about the destruction of this one. I can't seem to catch it on my phone, but the hamon looks to go right under the solder, only disappearing where the actual material has concealed it.

 

Fingers crossed...

[Tom Darling]

For what reason would this be done?  I have a theory, but can't bare to think about it.  However, the blade and mei looks to be a perfect fit.  Peace.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Tom D.

[doomsdaymachine]

I don't think the nakago was welded on, though I won't be able to know for sure without removing the habaki. I can say that this habaki wasn't seated all the way to the munemachi when it was soldered, but the hamachi is flush with the habaki. I think this it was a fitment problem that someone ham-fisted their way through.

[Surfson]

I started to make various suggestions about how to remove the habaki without damaging the steel, but all have risk and the NMB members will go bat sh** crazy with any of these suggestions.  i do recall that I sent a blade to Ted Tenold that has a similar situation and he might have some suggestions.  

[doomsdaymachine]

Thanks for the effort, Robert! If there's any risk to the blade, you can bet I'll be leaving it to a professional. I know of Ted, and would love to hear his pro opinion on a solution to this. I guess for the time being, I'll just keep cleaning, oiling, and researching! Even if it turns out the problem is too severe for a reasonable fix, the mounts alone are worth more than I paid for it by far.

 

...That said, I really hope it's not too much trouble to fix.

[Blazeaglory]

The plot thickens...

[ChrisW]

Personally, I'd let a professional handle it.

[Brian]

The heat to melt solder won't affect temper. But leave it to someone who knows to attempt it. Also, the habaki will heat much faster than the steel, so you could apply heat to it with pressure downwards on the habaki without affecting temper.
But again, have a proper plan in place first, and wrap the front and back parts of the blade in something cold.