Heinajo-sukashi/Kyo-sukashi Theory

[FlorianB]

Hello ladies and gentlemen,

for all I know Heianjo-sukashi is the pre-Edo-period forerunner of Kyo-sukashi.
Sasano’s written in his book “Tosogu no Kigen” that Kyo-sukashi (he does not use the term Heinajo-sukashi) came into existence in between Eikyo- and Onin-period (i.e. MIDDLE Muromachi).

Now I read about another idea on the shibuiswords.com website ( www.shibuiswords.com/tsuba.htm#heianjo ), that Heianjo-sukashi and Kyo-sukashi are two separate schools working parallel since LATE Muromachi-period, the former closely connected with (or being part of) the Heianjo-zogan-school. According to this theory the workmanship of Heianjo-sukashi and Kyo-sukashi is similar and during the Momoyama period became more and more identical since then it was labelled only as Kyo-sukashi.
Alas the article doesn’t illustrate the differences in their styles.

Is this theory to be taken seriously?

Thanks,

Florian
 

[Geraint]

Dear Florian.

 

By coincidence I was researching down the same rabbit hole recently and was looking at this article.  I agree some illustrations would have been helpful, perhaps they will appear in time.  As the site is run by Eliot Long and Robert Haynes in collaboration, and as Mr Haynes is the most authoritative writer on the subject in the West then I would say that the theory is certainly to be trusted, we all wait for more detail.

 

All the best.

[ROKUJURO]

When I compare HEIANJO TSUBA that I have seen in hand or on images to KYO SUKASHI, I do not find resemblances, but this may have to do with the choice of items. I would indeed like to see some pictures that could back up this theory.

What I have read is that some HEIANJO artists/craftsmen might have used TSUBA blanks from other TSUBASHI to decorate them in HEIANJO style. Perhaps some influence was generated from this cooperation, but still I do not see typical KYO SUKASHI traits in HEIANJO TSUBA. 

[Geraint]

Dear Jean.

 

Until very recently I have associated Heianjo zogan with Heianjo school and I am coming to think that this is not adequate.  As a parallel Kaga zogan, representing a flat inlay technique, can be found on tsuba from all sorts of schools, not just from Kaga.  That speaks to your point about Heianjo zogan found on plates from other schools.  Recently we had a thread on what was initially proposed as Heianjo zogan but the argument for Washida was compelling. 

 

What I am coming to is the distinction between technique and school.  Heianjo zogan = technique.  Certainly an image search for Heianjo tsuba brings up a wide variety of brass inlay as well as some very doubtful attributions by auction houses and others.  From what I have read recently Heianjo sukashi and Kyo sukashi are hard to differentiate, this is going to make me look at everything labelled Kyo sukashi more closely but I doubt that I will be able to spot the difference.  

 

I will be interested to hear what others have to add to this.

 

All the best.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Agreed, as this is what I collect. I just asked Elliott for some clarification.

[FlorianB]

I must admit I got a little bit confused by the wording of this texts (more to read on this site: www.shibuiswords.com/heianjosukashischool.html and www.shibuiswords.com/kyo-sukashischool.html) which seems to be indistinct here and there.

 

So I hope to hear and see more about this proposition which deserves attention.

Florian