Does Curiosity Kill the Cat?

[Bruce Pennington]

Spun this off of the "Airborne" Sarute thread. We were chasing a different rabbit.

 

Made some interesting discoveries while pursuing Neil's question of whether my latest '39 Mantetsu is a piece-together item.

 

First the '39 Mantetsu: Since I had the liner out of the saya for cleaning/drying, I laid the blade in one half of the liner to see how it fits and viola:

 

 

It's a "close" fit on the curve, but as you can see, the liner was made for a much longer blade. Now, I will have to inquire into liner-making to see if that was the norm, especially for mass produced WWII gunto, or find more examples to compare. You can see, per Neil's observation that the blade came with a chuso, but that point isn't conclusive as the koiguchi is missing, and the liner is actually cut out to fit the chuso.

 

But since I started looking for other examples, I tried to open up the other two Mantetsu saya, but couldn't get the liners to budge. Hmph. I opened up a combat saya on my Takayama-to, and again viola:

 

 

This fit was even WORSE! Both curve and length were visibly off. Then I noticed the koiguchi and it's made for a chuso, but the blade doesn't have one, nor is the liner cut for one. Another Harumph, because now that means that the combat saya for my Takayama-to isn't original. I had always been bothered by the new look of the leather, the pattern of the leather pieces didn't fit normal WWII style, and it was brown rather than Navy black. So, curiosity DID kill that cat!

 

Then, I tried my Rinji-seishiki, with star-stamped Kunitoshi, but couldn't get the liner out. Oddly, it was dry inside and was loose, but still wouldn't budge, when I noticed a jiggling sound at the end of the saya. The ishizuki is pinned, with both ends peened, and it jiggles when I wiggle the liner! So appearantly, the pin must go all the way through the liner to the other side. Harumph. Thought for sure I'd fined a good custom example to see if the liner was fitted perfectly.

 

In re-assembling the saya I noticed the chuso was quite unique! Neil, have you seen this before?

 

 

The edge of the saya had actually been cut larger for the different chuso design.

[Bruno]

Hi Bruce,

 

Once Chris B. told me that even in shirasaya it is not rare that the blade is in contact with the wood. It seems to require quite an amount of skills and time to make a wood liner or saya that perfectly fits the blade. So I guess for many swords in Gunto koshirae plus the war context did not help to make them perfect.

 

BTW, do you have photos of your Takayama-to? 

 

Thanks

[ChrisW]

Maybe they were pre-made en masse and then fitted once they were ready?

[Bruce Pennington]

Bruno & Chris, thanks. Yes, I suspect that might be true with the demands placed on the industry to crank these out en-masse.

 

Bruno, it's unsigned, but the blade is clearly a Takayama-styled blade - short with bulbous kissaki:

[Bruno]

Thanks Bruce! Yes this crafts of making perfect saya that do not touch the blade is hard to come by even nowadays.

 

I found these Takayama-to quite interesting in terms of swords improvements. Not particularly elegant but would not be against owning a well finished one. Some have interesting patriotic slogan on the nakago.

 

Though I find strange many were signed also by the polisher, since the polish won't last long compared to the mei which will stay forever.

[Dave R]

 I have seen a rust resistant blade signed by the polisher. Perhaps they saw themselves as making a bigger contribution than we now credit.

[Bruno]

 I have seen a rust resistant blade signed by the polisher. Perhaps they saw themselves as making a bigger contribution than we now credit.

Or a sales technique!

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, that chuso IS unique. Looks original, so obviously a design you "discovered" . Be interesting to see if others have seen one. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Bruce, that chuso IS unique. Looks original, so obviously a design you "discovered" . Be interesting to see if others have seen one.

 

Wow Neil, I can't believe I have a koshirae item you don't already have!!! (or maybe you just don't take your saya apart? This is on a 1945 standard Rinji seishiki model (well it's got a star-stamped gendaito in it; but it's not the MRS 1945, just the "normal" kind.)

[IJASWORDS]

OK OK Bruce, I am secretly jealous, but couldn't be at discovered by a nicer guy.   

[george trotter]

Bruce, that chuso IS unique. Looks original, so obviously a design you "discovered" . Be interesting to see if others have seen one. 

Sorry guys...hate to be a joy kill, but that is not the chuso...it is the chuso 'disconnector' button found on the scabbard mouth on 2 button Rinji mount swords. They all have it like that.

 

PS...what is a MRS 1945?

[IJASWORDS]

George, you are correct. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Sorry guys...hate to be a joy kill, but that is not the chuso...it is the chuso 'disconnector' button found on the scabbard mouth on 2 button Rinji mount swords. They all have it like that.

 

PS...what is a MRS 1945?

Well that makes sense! It’s the only 2-button I’ve ever owned and I’d never taken it apart, so I never knew. Well, there’s another cat killed!! Ha!

 

MRS is short for Manchurian Rinji-seishiki: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/31767-manchurian-rinji-seishiki-sword/