Manchurian Rinji Seishiki Sword

[IJASWORDS]

This sword, the MRS model, has been discussed on other threads, so I thought I would pull it together on one topic. This can be a focal point for other contributions from interested collectors in this model. 

It appears that all examples examined have Mantetsu blades, some without a mei. 

It's basic design reflects the limited capability of equipment at the Nan-Man factory. 

The same on all known examples, is a heavy duty cotton fire hose material. 

Production looks like late 1944 through 1945. 

No paint is evident on the saya, but looks like a gun bluing or browning. 

Ito handle wrap colour, varies from brown to black . 

Small variations exist across the examples known to exist. 

I reach out to others to add more information, and photos of other examples .

[BANGBANGSAN]

I had 8 of Mantetsu sword,2 are in Manchurian Rinji Seishiki mount. One of the MRS and one Wavy Hamon at my friends' place.

[IJASWORDS]

That's now 5 examples, be good to get some more. 

[Bruce Pennington]

I found this one in the Mantetsu study files, don't recall where I found it on the web.

[Bruce Pennington]

For future readers that start here, and haven't followed the progression of Neil's investigation into this model, I'll re-post the following (current reference books speculated that this model is a "Home Defense" model created at the end of the war to prepare for Allied invasion.)

 

I posed the question to Nick Komiya, at Warrelics, if he had any data, or documents, describing the "Home Defense model" sword mentioned in several reference books. His response can be found here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/1945-rinji-seishiki-icu-ventilator-762330/

 

Realizing that some have trouble with links, the majority of his evaluation is here:

 

"There is no chance that such a sword was made for civil defense units. Core members of civil defense were policemen and firefighters, but such personnel simply could not get swords, due to wartime shortages. This shortage got to the point of prefectural police chiefs receiving a nationwide memo dated 27th February 1945 saying that though huge efforts were being made to secure a supply of badly needed swords, no magic solution was in sight and that the only immediate remedy was to ask retired police and fire brigade members to hand in their swords for use by incumbents, should they still have them.

 

On the civilian front, the standard weapon of choice for Homeland Defense was the stereotype of sharpened bamboo poles, and there certainly was no plan nor intention to arm civilians with swords.

 

What Bruce is calling a Homeland Defense model can only be a last ditch effort to continue the Rinji Seishiki effort. As I already explained here, the heavy bombings of 1944 basically killed off the sword industry by spring of 1945. Manufacturing within Japan was in the process of evacuation and relocation to a remote area outside the normal target areas.

 

Reflecting this huge disruption to production efforts, two new weapon names suddenly appeared in the production volume plans for 1945 as published in May of that year. Those weapon names were 簡易銃剣 (simplified bayonet) and 簡易小銃 (simplified rifle). In the remarks column, the spreadsheet says of the bayonet “Without restricting the material or design, it should be outright simple, just enough to stab and hack with” Production planned for 1945 was as many as 1,200 thousand units. Remarks for the rifle said “Enhanced independence of the production locale”. When spelled out fully, that would mean “to get things done under one roof as much as possible without relying on parts suppliers all scattered around”. They had planned to put together 15,000 of these rifles. Both these simplified weapons were officially approved for production on 14th May 1945.

 

When mainland production was in such a stage of grasping at straws, continental facilities like Jinsen and Nanman were safe havens away from all the bombing, but unlike before, they no longer had the luxury of job distribution possibilities with the mainland and had to produce everything locally, lock, stock and barrel.

 

I am not enough of a sword fan to know how Mantetsu split jobs with mainland companies, but if they had been relying on Japan for the Koshirae, the tide of the times would have required all that to be Manchurian sourced as well. 　

 

If they said of the bayonet "Never mind what it looks like or what it's made of, so long as it stabs and hacks", a Mantetsu blade with duct tape as Tsukamaki would have easily made the grade. Is that to be regarded as a new model? It would be more like the the Rinji Seishiki taking its last free breath before going on the ventilator."

[IJASWORDS]

Thanks Bruce, nice.

[vajo]

I like the right one Neil 

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

I like the one in the middle with Canvas handle wrap the most.

 

 

 

I like the right one Neil 

 

[drb 1643]

Here are the pictures as requested Neil.

Tom

[IJASWORDS]

Trystan, when you see WW2 photos of troops with swords, many have a canvas or cotton cover for protection. Very few of these covers remain. I am leaving this on. But when I lifted it the handle looks perfect. 

[BANGBANGSAN]

I saw most of them have white cotton on ,not many canvas though.

 

Trystan, when you see WW2 photos of troops with swords, many have a canvas or cotton cover for protection. Very few of these covers remain. I am leaving this on. But when I lifted it the handle looks perfect. 

[Dave R]

Trystan, when you see WW2 photos of troops with swords, many have a canvas or cotton cover for protection. Very few of these covers remain. I am leaving this on. But when I lifted it the handle looks perfect. 

 

 It's a tradition that goes back to Edo and probably earlier still, which makes sense when you have a silk wrap on the hilt. Very nice indeed to see an actual WW2 example. Thank you for the photo.

[Bruce Pennington]

Forgot this thread was started.  I'm copying my post from the other thread:

 

Couple of updates on this:

1.  Trying to find anyone, either here or on Warrelics, that has documentation or insight to the 連工, or Renkoh stamp (got the English pronunciation from Nick).  I'm starting to agree with Thomas (Kiipu) on the idea this was a contraction, like Mantetsu is for SMR, for the 大連鉄道工場　Dairen Tetsudō Kōjō　Dairen Railway Workshop, who was the SMR shop making Mantetsu swords.  My reasoning is the location of the stamp on the end of the nakago.  It is not a normal location for an inspector stamp on Japanese blades.  Inspector stamps are found near the tsuba/seppa and on the mune.  The only inspector stamp found at the jiri of any blade is the M or W.  What we DO see is personal Kao and Hotstamps of  smiths, and we see stamped numbers which are either put there by smiths or by the fittings shops.  Either case COULD mean this Renkoh is the name of the shop, not an inspection stamp.

2.  I also think it's significant that the stamp is only found on the MRS fitted blades.  I wish it were true of ALL MRS blades, but it's not.  After perusing my files, I've found 6 1944 Mantetsu  and 2 1945 mumei Mantetsu in the MRS fittings:

1944

セ 1099

セ 1143

セ 1310 (with leather saya cover!)

セ 2430

セ 2575

?  199

1945

い 1170

Richard Fuller's mumei Mantetsu (unstated serial number)

 

Only 3 of those - 2430, 2575, and 199 - have the Renkoh stamp, although I don't have a full-length nakago pic of the 199 or 1066 blades (so they COULD be Renkoh stamped).

[Bruce Pennington]

Posting the pics of the 3 stamped nakago for reference

199

 

2430

 

2575

[vajo]

That canvas protection is seen often on old ww2 soldier photos when the tsuka is shining white. Its very rare to have it. Neil has an outstanding collection.

[IJASWORDS]

Chris, it is amazing how many WW2 photos show swords with white cloth covered tsuka. Not many survive today. This one has yellowed with age and use.  

[Bruce Pennington]

On 4/8/2020 at 11:44 PM, IJASWORDS said:

Production looks like late 1944 through 1945. 

Neil,

I'm going through the LIvio W. Cillo book "An Oshigata Book of MODERN Japanese SWORSMITHS 1868-1945" (which I believe is a re-print of Slough's book).  On page 95, discussing Mantetsu, he says:

"On December 1, 1938, the company decided to set up an additional facility to increase production.  The former Futaba Kindergarden building, located next to the monument to Mantetsu workers who died during employment, was chosen as the new site.  The Darien Factory concentrated on producing blades, while the new facility made sword mounts, polished and performed final assembly."

I'm thinking this site might be the origin of these fittings.  It would also explain your '38 in such fittings (which isn't posted here.  Do you recall which thread it was posted?)

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, if you go to my last post in Mantetsu owners, a survey, you will see the 1938 MRS outfit with the cloth wrapped handle, and the blade stamped with the Railway stamp, and dated 1938. 

This reinforces my hypothesis that the MRS (blade and koshirae) sword was a unique and individual model in its own right. 

I suspect they were made for the Japanese troops stationed in Manchuria, and probably designed there. As PNSSHOGUN (John) suggested somewhere, the fittings have an almost Chinese design look about them. Remember in the Ohmura study, it is mentioned how Japanese blades would break in the cold Manchurian environment. And this was one of the drivers for a steel to be developed to withstand the cold. "Mantetsu". 

I have examples spanning 1938 to 1945, all with Mantetsu blades. 

So again, theories like, late war home defense swords, Rinji prototypes, etc, I think can be ignored. 

Another reason why these swords are so rare, and never show up in photos of swords surrendered in the Pacific.    

[BANGBANGSAN]

2 hours ago, IJASWORDS said:

 

I suspect they were made for the Japanese troops stationed in Manchuria, and probably designed there. As PNSSHOGUN (John) suggested somewhere, the fittings have an almost Chinese design look about them. Remember in the Ohmura study, it is mentioned how Japanese blades would break in the cold Manchurian environment. And this was one of the drivers for a steel to be developed to withstand the cold. "Mantetsu". 

I have examples spanning 1938 to 1945, all with Mantetsu blades. 

So again, theories like, late war home defense swords, Rinji prototypes, etc, I think can be ignored. 

Another reason why these swords are so rare, and never show up in photos of swords surrendered in the Pacific.    

Neil
 I agree with your idea, they were made for the Japanese troops stationed in Manchuria, and probably designed there. And I believe 関東軍 Kwantung Army should have most of the Mantetsu swords since they formed and stationed in Manchukuo and South Manchurian Railway Zone after the Russo-Japanese War.
 Starts from 1943, the Kwantung Army shipped off many troops for use in Pacifica theaters.
 1945, January the Army headquarters move 13 Divisions Kwantung Army to Pacifica theaters. April, The US army took Okinawa and starting to bomb mainland Japan,7 Divisions and 1/3 equipment from Kwantung Army back to Japan for homeland defense.
 By the end of the war, the Kwantung Army should be surrender at all theaters. I think not many of these RS Mantetus were made, that's why they don't show up much.
PS: So far,I saw only 3 datings on these, 1.your 1938(only one ) 2.1944(most),3.no date(2 or 3), nothing in between.I tend to believe it was designed /made at the late war in China for Kwantung Army.

The reason some call it the late war home defense swords,maybe because it was brought back to Japan at late war(1945, April)by the Kwantung Army for homeland defense use?Just a thought.

[Dave R]

 Interesting the two mekugi-ana, with the second one placed like an NCO blade. Is that one actually used, or left vacant?

 

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Dave R said:

Is that one actually used, or left vacant?

Dave,

Hopefully Neil will answer, as he is the one who possess this, but of all 7 MRS mounted Mantetsu in my files, they all have the second hole placed like this (I looked at some standard RS gunto, and I see what you mean - the second hole isn't quite as near the end like these).  I even have 3 '44 Mantetsu with the double ana, like these, but mounted in Type 98 fittings.  And in all of them, the tsuka is removed in the photos without removing the sarute, barrel screw, or kabutogane.  So it appears they are not being used.

[BANGBANGSAN]

3 hours ago, Dave R said:

 Interesting the two mekugi-ana, with the second one placed like an NCO blade. Is that one actually used, or left vacant?

 

Left vacant,  only one hole on the handle.

[BANGBANGSAN]

15 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

I even have 3 '44 Mantetsu with the double ana, like these, but mounted in Type 98 fittings. 

Bruce

Do you have photos for the 44 Mantetsu with the double ana?

[Bruce Pennington]

5 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

44 Mantetsu with the double ana?

I assume you mean the ones in Type 98 fittings.  Here they are:

 

Spring '44 HI 1155 (only have pics of the tsuba/seppa)

Spring 1944 MO 228

 

 

Spring 1944 (no serial available):

[BANGBANGSAN]

Thanks Bruce!

[Bruce Pennington]

While I think these were designed and made at the Mantetsu factory, the question of 'when' remains.  While reading Nick's description of the destruction of mainland Japan's sword production by Allied bombing, he says this:

"When mainland production was in such a stage of grasping at straws, continental facilities like Jinsen and Nanman were safe havens away from all the bombing, but unlike before, they no longer had the luxury of job distribution possibilities with the mainland and had to produce everything locally, lock, stock and barrel.

I am not enough of a sword fan to know how Mantetsu split jobs with mainland companies, but if they had been relying on Japan for the Koshirae, the tide of the times would have required all that to be Manchurian sourced as well. "

 

This could be an explanation for the SMR version of the RS.

[Bruce Pennington]

Just discovered this on Ohmura's site HERE.  It seems to be the MRS fittings with a mumei blade.  The problem is that the blade has quite a non-suguha hamon.  So, either this is a 1945 Mantetsu blade with a very non-standard, maybe custom, blade; or it's a blade by someone else than SMR, and they buyer purchased an SMR rinji set of fittings; OR the style is not exclusive to SMR. 

 

In WWII, we can never say never, never say always!

[Kiipu]

47 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

It seems to be the MRS fittings with a mumei blade.

 

Beat you to it.

Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey, Page 17

 

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Beat you to it.

Dang!  But my pictures are better than yours! Ha!

 

To horribly abuse a famous quote: "I've forgotten more, than (I) will ever know!"

 

Worked out, though, as this is the thread it needed to wind up on.

[Bruce Pennington]

I have updated the Mantetsu -- South Manchurian Railway article to include a better description and photos of this unique set of fittings.  It's a small change, but the original section was woefully understated.